Glee 3.06 – Mash-Off

Chris Colfer described his outfit as Princess Leia, early Ewok.

He's not wrong.










Oooh, this episode went dark.  Which I love.  But there is going to be backlash, I can just feel it.  Because Finn angered our resident Latina de Lima Heights, today’s drink is Un Alcahuete. (If you speak Mexican slang, este es muy comico.)


Catch your Bingo Card here, and get ready for dranks.


Puck forces a Lion King reference in an inner monologue catching us all up on how he’s hot for Shelby. He’s 18, so it’s totally legal, or something, and he really likes her. A lot. He wants to actually put some effort into this one, as she makes him feel like a natural whoa-man. This leads into a fantasy where he sings “Hot 4 Teacher” by Van Halen in class with Finn, Mike, and Blaine backing him up as Shelby does the whole “Slo-Mo” quasi-strip tease in the classroom.

Let’s all just admire the beauty that is Idina Menzel. Okay, back to the fantasy where they’re all in 80s gear, the tiger print skinny ties and Don Johnson/Miami Vice look. This morphs into the Glee Club watching these guys actually putting on a performance, with super suggestive dance moves, Will Schuester happy to be reliving his junior high years and clapping, and Rachel and Kurt staring at their respective boyfriends with dreamy expressions.

I have to say I didn’t love it. Mostly because Puck is no David Lee Roth. And Finn was so totally not playing the drums to this, I had to laugh. (Sorry, married a drummer. He points this stuff out to me all the time. I still think Cory Monteith is adorable and would climb him like a tree.) BUT WHATEVER, it’s not about me, I get it.

Rachel, who found Finn’s drumming superior, does question the appropriateness of this spur-of-the-moment performance. [DRINK] Oh, but it’s just because they like the song? It is not at all about Puck wanting to make the two backed beast with one Shelby Cocoran. Ahem.

Sue Sylvester’s AMAZING campaign video airs, wherein she describes Burt Hummel as having a baboon heart, he will expect all Ohioans to obtain baboon hearts, and also he might be a robot, who can say for sure? Hilarious moment: the tag line. “Paid for by angry white people to elect Sue Sylvester.” [DRINK!]

Kurt storms into her office the next day, absolutely livid, but not because of the horrendous outfit they’ve put him in, but because she’s straight up lying about the Sainted Burt Hummel. (I got your back, Boo.) But really, Kurt is wearing a blackened Poppin’ Fresh deflated chef hat made of leather and a sweater that looks like two grandmothers shot each others’ bed spreads which bled together, were buried at Branson, Missouri, and came back to life as a pancho of evil, sent to destroy the most fabulous style icon at McKinley High. [DRINK.]

Kurt remains mad about her lies, but he needs to learn how to play dirty, because that’s politics, baby! Cut to: Brittany passing out balloon with promises of candy kisses and unicorn gummy bears in every classroom, oh and also, Rachel Berry is still on MySpace, meaning she’s not fit to lead. [Double DRINK, Brit zinger and dirty politics.]

You know what, Ms. Sylvester? Burt Hummel didn’t raise a liar. Kurt will not be stooping to any level, because he only has his sights set on the stars, he thanks you very much. HARUMPH. And Sue calls him Yasser and I laughed so damn hard I spooked my cat. Yasser, fling a little poo. No he will NOT fling the poo! Good day to you, madam.

Shelby approaches Will in the teacher’s lounge, sorry about the whole defecting of his kids and all, they came to her, sorry? Will says no big, it’s all his fault anyway. Well, yes. They just want to, you know, actually sing, so… Will asks her if he saw they’re competing against each other in Sectionals and also a group that we’re supposed to believe would actually name themselves the Unitards. (I would name MY group that, but a school? Also, does this mean they’re competing against The Warblers at Regionals? Because I need that to happen. NEED.)

Will and Shelby decide that it’s time for mash-ups! But they’re going to make it a competition. UGH. Not a fan of mash-ups, guys. (Although let’s get real – the last song of the night is amazing.) Both groups wait for them on stage, when Will strolls out strumming a guitar, and Shelby sings along, and sits at the piano. And this is exactly why I hate mash-ups. It is, I swear to the god of your choice, “You and I” by Lady Gaga smashed with “You and I” by Crystal freaking Gayle and Eddie flipping Rabbit. And if you watch the kids, they are all forcing themselves to smile and bob their heads because this is awful and I want to rip out my ears because they are all better than this.

Proposal: someone do a mash-up of “In Your Eyes” by Peter Gabriel and “I Only Have Eyes For You,” by the Flamingos, and then ask David Lynch to direct a movie about serial killers who collect bottled ships and eat ants, and this mash-up can be the big love scene song between Lara Dern and Willem Dafoe as they feed each other fist fulls of cherry pie. (If you like David Lynch, that joke was GOLD.)

Rachel says it all. “Wow. Um, why?” Hey, gang, it’s time you got serious! You should battle it out in song. Sounds great! Again!

After school, Puck brings Shelby a wee pumpkin (cafeteria was out of apples) and he lays it out plain. “I want you. You’re only my substitute, so no big. We have chemistry. I dig on MILFs. Oh, and I’m in love with you.” Why should she? He has an answer for that, too. “You’re hot. I’m hot. I love Beth, and I’m her dad and I could be her dad. We’re the ultimate mash-up [groan].”

She’s not feeling it, bro. It’s not that easy to deter the Puckerman, sister, he’s got it bad for you, and she better recognize that this is going to happen. (We all see the outcome telegraphing a mile away, right?)

In Glee, Will asks for song suggestions and they’re all group names, and Kurt hollers Spice Girls, and I’ll tell you what I want, what I really really want. (Yo tell me what you want, what you really really want?) I wanna [huh!] I wanna [huh!] I wanna [huh!] I wanna [huh!] I wanna really really really wanna make them stop having Kurt suggest songs that are not even close to what he’d actually like. Sorry.

Finn steps up like a leader-bro and says those bands all broke up, they need to pick a band that has stayed together through the tough times. Captain and Tennille it is! Wait, no, he says Hall and Oates. Really. REALLY. Also, he thinks they need to give the solo to the new guy. The camera is fixed on Blaine, but oooooh, sick burn, Finn meant Rory. And Blaine, ever the dapper gentleman, takes it in stride and agrees, even tells a nervous Rory that he’d be great. I love you, Blaine Anderson.

Quinn bitches to Puck about how CPS sucks for not taking Beth away yet, god, government Is so stupid. She hisses and spits her venom at Puck, demanding he step it up and make this hostile takeover happen already. She wants to take that baby now, okay? It’s all about winning. And yeah, maybe having a kid would be cool. Whatever. Puck is so not okay with how things are turning out.

Quinn tries to then kiss up to Shelby to get on the TroubleTones, but Shelby isn’t so cool with it. Oho. Meanwhile, Finn and Rory have some bro-bonding (adorable) and Rory is just super scared about a solo. He just really wants to support Finn, because Finn is his hero. Finn explains what trash talking means when the conversation veers to Santana, when Speak of the Devil walks by.

Finn tells her she looks like an assless J. Lo. Oooh, that would hurt if J. Lo were relevant! (My idea: she looks like a deflated Kardashian. The one no one cares about. Naya, I think you’re perfection, by the way.) Rory’s slam is my favorite: “You’re skinny like all the crops failed on yer family’s farm! I’m Oirish!”

Oh, bless. Those two couldn’t insult Santana if she wrote it out for them. Finn bows up and is all, is that right? Then how about a little dodge-ball out of the blue for no reason this has actually been banned in most schools but there’s a point to it so how about we keep on with my idea of playing it?

It’s on like Red Dawn, Donkey Kong!

Rachel approaches Shelby with a letter of recommendation for NYADA. She’s already written it, and if Shelby will just sign it, it should really help. Shelby does without question. Rachel turns to leave and Shelby says, “I’m so proud of you. You’re truly a star, Rachel.” She just wants to cheer Rachel on, aww. Rachel takes her letter back and asks if maybe Shelby could write one in her own words instead?

Sure! Shelby looks over her resume, it’s impressive. “I feel terrible for kids who don’t have these credentials. They have no chance in hell of getting into NYADA.” Twinge of guilt on Rachel’s part for stabbing one Kurt Hummel in the back – and ooh, that’s a stingy pain, isn’t it?

Time for dodge-ball. Rachel tries to talk to Kurt, but he’s still very angry with her, and has every right to be. She tries to not cry as she tells him how much she misses being friends with him. “Maybe you should have thought of that before you walked all over me in your borderline sociopathic climb to the top.”

Finn blows this whistle, the girls are black, the New Directions are red, and Rory has no idea how to play. Puck fills him in: BALLS. YOU DODGE THEM. The song “Hit Me With Your Best Shot” by Pat Benetar and Blondie’s “One Way Or Another” plays. Rachel is hit in the face when Santana hits her solo [DRINK] then Quinn, Mike, Kurt – making the best smashed face face of all – and there is some random flying and leaping of bodies (I counted Blaine soaring twice, nice shorts,) and then it’s only Finn and Rory. Santana beams him in the face, girls win!

Rory stands there, not sure what to do, and the girls all bean their balls at him viciously, and he falls to the ground, curling up on himself. Kurt runs over, yells at them to stop and sees that Rory has a bloody nose. Kurt Hummel, you win at life, let’s all just accept it. I love that kid. I LOVE KURT HUMMEL. He tells them that this is not how they should be treating each other like this.

At the Trouble Tones practice, Mercedes shows up with the suggestion to sing Adele (Adele actually made a video asking Amber Riley to sing her songs, sent it to Amber, and she sent it to the producers. Talk about flattering!) Everyone loves the idea, Santana tries to steamroller control, but Miss Mercedes is not having that. She brought yo ass into this club, and she can take you out.

Everyone stands behind Mercedes. Shelby says they’ll win because they’re better, not meaner. And in the cutest moment ever between Brittany and Santana, Brittany sing-songs, “Stop the violence!” cracking Santana up, and she agrees and they are all smiles for each other and it’s so cute. [DRINK]

Santana agrees to apologize to Finn. She finds him in the hall, talking with Rory, and delivers an EPIC SLAM.

“I’m sorry. I’m sorry that we’re going to kick your ass. I’m sorry that you sing like you’re getting your prostate checked. I’m sorry that you dance like you’ve been asleep for years and someone just woke you up. Have fun riding on Rachel’s coat tails for the rest of your life. Although, you know what? I would just watch out for her come holiday time, if I were him. Because if I were her, I’d stick a stent into one of those boobs and let the Finn blubber light the Hanukkah lamp for eight magical nights.”

She walks off, dusting her shoulders, but Finn is not letting that go. He slowly follows her, talking in a regular voice in the hall, just for her. “Hey, Santana, why don’t you just come out of the closet?”

ERRRRRRRK! Needle on the record, what was that?! She stops, dead. Some girl in the hallway reacts, no one else does.

“You tear others down because you’re constantly tearing yourself down. Because you love Brittany and you’re scared she might not love you back. Must hurt to not be able to admit to everyone how you feel. I think you’re a coward. See you at the mash-off.”

DAAAAAAAAAAAMN. (Note Rory’s face through this whole exchange. He looks horrified.)

Time for another Sue campaign video! “Burt says he has no baboon heart, but he also says he’s not married to a donkey. So which is it? I’m Sue, vote for me. And it’s not personal.”

Cut to Burt at Will’s place, pissed that Will is doing nothing about this, what with him totally usurping Kurt as campaign manager (ah, didn’t think I’d remember that, Glee writers? Well I did.) Burt tells him to get a handle on this, STAT.

Puck is over at Shelby’s playing with Beth and being adorable and please shave the mohawk off. Don’t you think it’s played out, guys? Just me? Anyway, Shelby is digging this whole guy playing with my daughter as we do domestic things around the house stuff. Puck finally comes clean about Quinn’s master plan with CPS, they wanted to be the parents, but he is sorry, and it was stupid. He used to think of Beth as an accident, but she’s not. Shelby was meant to be her mother. And he wants to be the baby daddy daddy. Aww.

Time for the first Mash-Off, Finn wins the Rochambeau with paper covering rock, burn! They’ll go first. It’s their big Hall-n-Oates number, everyone is in more cheesy 80s togs and they are wearing mustaches and I do not like it, I do not like it on Artie. I do not like it on Mikey. I do not like it on my Blaine. Hey wardrobe peeps: you hurt my brain. Kurt and Rory aren’t, because I guess that would look ridiculous? (I know, half are Hall, half are Oates.)

Tina and Rory sing together, though, and they sound lovely. The guys whip off their ‘staches for the finale as Quinn and Finn wrap up the adult contemporary in a Hyper-Color bow. (Shelby looks on, thinking daggers at Quinn.) Finn’s voice is well suited for this type of mellow adult contemporary. Eh.

Next is a close up on campaign posters. Rachel with a blacked out tooth, Kurt with a penis and balls, I mean, glasses and cigarette, and Brittany with a musical toot out of her tush. Time for the big debate! Figgins is so deliciously droll as he tells the crowd that it’s a “magnificent turn out.” There are a few dozen kids there.

Rick “The Stick” Nelson is up first. He’s the guy that bullied Rory with the whole, “Say U2 Is overrated! SAY IT!” that cracked me up. His ginger mullet is so fingers kiss, I can’t even. So like, his dad? Okay? Pays taxes and stuff? Which, like, makes him the boss of teachers, or something. So they totally need to shut up and let him run the show. You know? RICK THE STICK!

Brittany takes the podium with a coloring page filled with her notes. She tells the crowd that tornadoes are a horrible plague on this country, and if she’s elected, she will take a stand and make them illegal. Also she will initiate Topless Tuesday, which garners a huge cheer.

And then the boy that moves me, the single most interesting kid in all of Ohio, takes the podium after taking off his unicorn headband, and come on. COME ON. Although only Kurt Hummel could sit with such a straight and proud back whilst wearing a unicorn on his head, let’s just all come to terms with it.

He mentions all of the lies and cruelty happening in this election, and he simply refuses to be bullied. (Cut to Blaine who practically has hearts beating in his eyes, as he makes a “go on!” teeny gesture, [DRINK]) And in fact, Kurt refuses to let anyone be bullied. Which is why he’s going to ban dodge-ball.

Well, that got their attention.

Since it’s invention (insert hilarious made-up facts) it’s been an instrument of suppression. It’s awful. It’s degrading, and hey, it actually hurts. It’s modern day stoning. (How brilliant is that line?) Violence is not okay. Huge round of applause from the people that matter.

Rachel takes the podium. And although she still believes that her crusade for book covers was brilliant, politically – the hockey guys heckle her, and Will shuts it down – she is withdrawing her name from the race and wants people to vote for Kurt, because he really is the only person qualified for the job. He deserves it. Raise you hand if you were proud of Rachel Berry!

Kurt asks her after the debate why? Well, she thinks he’s spectacular, but he needs that extra padding on his application to NYADA. Also, she hated him hating her. Oh, Kurt did too, because scowling causes forehead lines, and he’s simply way too young for Botox. Rachel tells him that honestly, her dreams of going to New York involve him being there with her . And..she’s going to hug him now, okay? (Nice nod to season 1.) Rachel/Kurt friendship is back on track, hooray! I loved them being friends.

Quinn drops in at Shelby’s trying to be awful, but Shelby lets her know that she knows about the whole plan. By the way Quinn? You have no idea what it means to be a mother. Quinn would like to remind the audience that Shelby gave her baby up for money, like a whore. DAMN. Yeah, she needs to get on out of Shelby’s place, shut up, thanks, bye. What about Puck? Uh-puh-puh, shut up. And get out.

Brittany tells Santana she should stop mocking Finn, when Becky interrupts, Santana needs to get to Coach Sue NOW. Will, Burt and Sue are there, and she’s freaking. What on earth? Sue looks pissed. But then Will pats her shoulder so…? Sue apologizes for making her campaign nasty. Because, um, it led to something bad. And she feels responsible for this happening.

Turns out that the one girl that overheard Finn? Her uncle is also running for office. And he has a new campaign video. They put the tape in to show her. It’s a slam on Sue’s “family values” platform, because what’s the deal with promoting a lesbian cheerleader to captain? Insert images of Santana and rainbow flag hearts. Also, why doesn’t Sue have a husband? Something she needs to confess, too? [DRINK, that is the dirtiest of politics.]

Santana is bawling. “I can’t believe this is happening. I haven’t even told my parents.” She runs out, crying. Good hell.

Cue the mash-up for the girls’ team, Adele’s “Rumor Has It” and “Someone Like You,” and it is flawless. Mercedes busts out “Rumor Has It” [DRINK] and then Santana takes over “Someone Like You” [DRINK] and she is quietly freaking out as the words of the songs hit home. And Brittany does at the end, as well, and it’s really heart breaking. The song wraps up, Finn whispers something to Rachel, and Santana demands to know what he said.

“Um, I said you were really good?”

“Oh, really?”

Rachel interjects, not getting what’s going on, “He literally just said you were really good.”

Santana shrieks at him, wanting to know if he told her, too, and now everyone knows!

“The whole school has known, Santana.”

“NO. EVERYONE.” And she slaps the shit out of his face.

Well, there’s an ending for you.

We have a break for another week, then it picks back up after US Thanksgiving. We’ll find out who wins the class president election, as well.


Drunken Thoughts:

Okay, I told my friend as soon as the episode ended that I can see the backlash against Finn from here, it will be all about how he was awful and horrible and shouldn’t have outed Santana, and they will demand his head.

Guys. Santana is so mean. You know the writers balanced his calm, quiet (it was meant for her, not everyone, he was very quiet as he said it.) dig at her to balance her over the top insults. And if it’s not okay to insult girls (calling them fat, flabby, gross, etc., all the things she calls Finn) it’s not okay to insult guys. You want equality? There you go.

BUT. Was it not a good thing to have said that with the chance of being overheard? Absolutely. You think high school kids think about repercussions? Of course not, or there’d be no point to these shows. This isn’t about “she deserved it,” which is going to be the other side’s argument, I’m guessing, but the real question is: did he out her? Did he really? Not at McKinley, I don’t think so, at least.

Edited to add: Keep reading comments, as there are some amazingly insightful discussions going on, including me getting my ass handed to me, but lovingly. :)

And please note what a big diversion to how dirty politics really suck and are awful and destructive this is. You know, just like in real life. I thought it made for brilliant TV, personally. Now. Let’s talk about it.

Please like & share:
  • mrmonkeybottoms

    I was curious about how people were reacting to this episode so I peeked in a few Glee forums where-as you called it- everyone was calling for Finn’s head on a platter. He outed her! That’s not ok! He deserved to be slapped! SLAPPED! etc etc.


    So Santana can insult people’s race, weight, looks, and sexual experience? She can physically attack someone? And let me tell you, she’s a strong young woman and she really let him have it. That slap was HARD. She can do whatever she wants and it’s ok cause…? Cause she’s female?

    And when Finn finally cracks and says it like it is, he’s the bad guy? He wasn’t ‘outing’ her, he was telling her why he thought she was so angry.

    If it was the other way around, if Finn was the one constantly bullying people the way she did and then turned around and slapped Santana cause she dared tell the truth about his sexuality insecurities making him bitter, well, no one would be saying SHE deserved it. They’d be calling for him to be arrested for assault. Just like she should be.

    And Hot For Teacher was the WORST, only topped by the Hall and Oates mashup. My poor 80s loving heart was being stabbed over and over by those monstrosities. I was pulling chunks of my own hair out and stuffing them in my ears in self-defense before I remembered the mute button. Thank you, mute button. Thank you.

    That said, the Adele mashup was AH-MAZING OMG.

    • “So Santana can insult people’s race, weight, looks, and sexual experience?”

      I agree 100% with the whole, NO, SHE CAN’T DO THAT. Shouldn’t. Etc. And I agree, he wasn’t outing her, that was why it was “Uh, everyone in school knows this.” Like in NYC when Quinn was upset and Santana offered to help her, and Quinn immediately thought she wanted to make out. So.

      And you’re absolutely right that Finn would be accused of assault if he’d done it. Whether people picked up on it or not, I’m fairly certain the INTENT was a quiet, this is me and you, Santana, because you yell for everyone to hear, and I’m just telling YOU.

      I really REALLY want people to talk about the fact that someone in their school ran to a relative to make sure they knew OMG TEH GHEY IS IN MY SCHOOLS. And that the campaign ad tried to SHAME THEM. Um, that’s way more important. WAY MORE.

      Holy shit, I have that Adele song in my head STILL.

  • mollie

    Proposal: someone do a mash-up of “In Your Eyes” by Peter Gabriel and “I Only Have Eyes For You,” by the Flamingos, and then ask David Lynch to direct a movie about serial killers who collect bottled ships and eat ants, and this mash-up can be the big love scene song between Lara Dern and Willem Dafoe as they feed each other fist fulls of cherry pie. (If you like David Lynch, that joke was GOLD.)

    OH, yes, this! I’m thrilled to be reading the words of someone who would even THINK of this.

    • I am naming you my favorite person. Just so you know.

  • mrmonkeybottoms

    “I really REALLY want people to talk about the fact that someone in their school ran to a relative to make sure they knew OMG TEH GHEY IS IN MY SCHOOLS. And that the campaign ad tried to SHAME THEM. Um, that’s way more important. WAY MORE.”

    Yeah, what’s the deal with that? I don’t know a lot of legal *stuff*, but are you allowed to feature minors in something like that? Of course, it’s Glee and it’s over the top and not realistic but if you’re going to be making all these lessons about outing and sexuality and the closet and morals and mashups and leprechauns then…I lost my train of thought.


    Also, your picture of Princess Leia/Kurt made me do a spit-take. Heheheheheheeeheheheee!

  • MP

    “What you and Monkeybutts said” is such cogent commentary, I know, but yeah, that. Sure, it was a low blow from Finn in response to a barrage of them from Santana, but let’s please separate “You ought to do better than that, dude” from the fact that it resulted in Santana getting outed, because

    a) shaming her about her sexuality wasn’t his intent; shaming her about her cowardice was
    b) he was saying it in a place where due to Santana’s behavior (come on, in S1, she and Britt go on trio dates with guys and make out in front of them in exchange for free dinner…) it was pretty much common knowledge
    c) “Please, if sex were the same as dating, then Santana and I would be dating” from Brittany could have had exactly the same effect, or any number of other things that were said or done regarding them in public, if the one under-a-rock-dwelling girl who apparently didn’t know happened to be passing by.

    • I really like the points you brought up. I do agree that he was trying to point out her cowardice. Did he do it in a HORRIBLE WAY? Yes.

      I do think that the writers maybe haven’t handled the issue of how Santana’s perceived well, but then, maybe that’s the point? Maybe it’s supposed to be ambiguous to bring up this kind of discussion?

    • TBQ

      Love ya, but gotta disagree. Even if, unbeknownst to us, Santana and Brittany had had sex in the caf during lunch period, Santana has still made it extremely clear she is not out and did not want to be. Finn’s comment to her is based on the fact that she’s not out.

      I don’t dispute that Santana was being a bully to Finn. No question. Unacceptably so (not that there’s ever an acceptable level for bullying, but point is that Santana was going to 11 with it). Finn’s response though was on a whole other level.

      Putting the gay thing aside for a moment, he went and hit somewhere extremely personal to Santana. Given Santana’s issues with her sexuality, Finn’s comments hit a vulnerable spot not unlike “Hey Sue, maybe your sister died because you suck!” Or “Hey Sam, maybe you wouldn’t be homeless if you got a real haircut.” He’s hitting with an extremely low blow.

      Putting the gay thing back into it, outing somebody has hugely significant implications. If it had been the two of them alone in the choir room and Finn made that comment it still would’ve been a low blow, but at least he wouldn’t be outing her.

      However, he did it in a hallway. And there’s no question of if he said it loud enough for other people to hear since the text tells us that. There’s likewise no question of whether or not it was an outing vs. “everyone” knows because again, the text tells us that.

      There was a story in the news today about a celebrity who came out and how it hurt her career. It’s really nice for those of us who have supportive families and who live in states that allow gay marriage and adoption (self included) but that doesn’t mean homophobia has vanished. And even if it had Santana herself clearly has issues with her sexuality that she needs to work on. It’s not for Finn or anyone else to force her to deal with that.

      • MP

        Yeah, you’re not wrong. I still don’t feel like Finn was intentionally outing her to anyone he thought didn’t know, as opposed to just striking at what he sees as her unreasonable fear of that, which turns her into a bully — but it wasn’t his right/place to make that call.

        I just don’t think what he did makes him a horrible person. (Which I’m not attributing to you either, but that’s pretty much a direct quote from more than one fan so far and what got me defensive of Finn-as-character despite my personal investment in the show being mostly Kurt’s and Santana’s contrasting arcs/ships.)

        It makes him a spectacular, immature fuckup (which is par for all the Glee characters but especially for Finn) who really fucked up spectacularly this time, and what he did hurt somebody deeply. He totally deserves to get his ass handed to him by both Santana and the Hummels. I get that intent isn’t magic (and his intent wasn’t exactly saintly anyway); I just dislike the meme of fandom frequently leaping to the opposite end of the scale where it’s not allowed to factor in at all, especially during sweeping judgments of a character’s worth as a person.

  • Laura

    The thing is- as a queer person who hasn’t watched Glee since the second episode- what you’re describing Finn doing and what you’re describing Santana doing are just vastly, vastly different. Insulting someone’s weight, race, whatever is awful, but there’s just no comparison to outing them. I don’t want to downplay bullying- as someone who was heavily bullied in high school, and who dealt with the consequences of being out- but it just isn’t the same. What he did to her will have far-flung effects for the rest of her high school career, if not her life. It will change her relationship with her family – I mean, hopefully they’re tolerant enough to not throw her out of the house- it will change her position at school (Kurt had to CHANGE SCHOOLS due to the consequences of being out. Think about it. Finn certainly should have; aren’t they stepbrothers?) and it may well endanger her life. His actions have put her in the position of being out to every person she meets on the street. It’s easy enough for him to say “nobody cares,” because he never has to deal with it. She does. And he had no right to put her in that position.

    • I really appreciate your comment as coming from a different view than my straight-privilege. I will say, though, that I do feel it’s pretty well established that Santana is gay/bi on the show. ( See MP’s excellent comment above.). But the far reaching consequences of his actions are Huge, no doubt about it.

      Kurt left for bullying, he’d been out for over a year at the point of his transfer. Small point, but just putting it out there.

      I do wish the topic here was the fact that a congressional campaign put a minor’s sexuality in their ad as if THAT was okay. I’m blown away by that.

      • Laura

        And I appreciate that you’re acknowledging your privilege- I’ve been engaging with a lot of people who don’t, so it’s a breath of fresh air. :)

        Established where? metatextually (in which case yes, totally) or in-text? Because in-text, while she and Brittany might have kissed publically, there’s a wide gap between two girls kissing- which a lot of people see as “for attention,” and as such non-threatening (a lot of guys saw me that way in high school)- and a girl being publically proclaimed as gay, which is threatening, because it’s a repudiation of her ever being into guys, and a reinforcement of the fact that her feelings for other girls are real and valid and not for show. That’s where the line gets drawn, because she might be able to hide her feelings for Brittany as “no big deal” so long as she’s still sexting other guys and presenting herself as sexually available, what Finn did destroys that potential. It’s like seeing someone hiding behind a wall to keep from being hit by projectiles, and tearing the wall away and pointing the projectile-throwers at them. As a friend of mine put it, it’s like getting kicked in the shins and responding with blowing out someones’ knees with a sledgehammer.

        (Was Kurt’s bullying not related to him being out and proud? By another gay guy, sure, but it still put him in danger. There’s nothing to say that the same thing won’t happen to Santana- only on a larger scale, because she’s not just out to McKinley, she’s out to OHIO now.)

        (Also, didn’t Finn accuse her of being a “coward” for staying in the closet? INEXCUSABLE. He has no right or place to say that, nor any understanding of why she might choose to do so- not least which because she faced/faces the threat of bodily harm if she came out.)

        • fm

          Santana’s sexuality is established to the viewer, but it’s clear that it’s not something she’s comfortable sharing yet with the rest of the world. I mean, just the other episode she wanted to hold hands with Brittany at Breadstix and then put a napkin over them, because she’s not ready to show it off. There’s a big gap for her between teasing boys with kissing another girl, which is how she used to present herself, and actually standing up and saying that she’s gay. She’s said again and again that she doesn’t want to be/isn’t ready to be/isn’t comfortable coming out (she sang “Songbird” to Brittany alone, she used Karofsky as a beard, she wouldn’t agree when Brittany asked her to be open about her feelings). Her story is her over and over again trying to reach out to Brit and then pulling back.

          So just because Finn – and we, the viewer- might know more of the story, I don’t think “everyone” knows. It was wrong for Finn to call her out on it in public. (Yes, it would have been a jerk move in private, but since she was smacking him around verbally, too, I can understand why he might go there. I don’t like it, but I can see it happening in the fight. But there’s no excuse in public.)

          • “There’s a big gap for her between teasing boys with kissing another girl, […] and actually standing up and saying she’s gay.”

            You bring up something that really resonates with me (and is making me slow down with my thinking) in that it’s presented in a certain way for THE VIEWER, but experiencing it AS SANTANA is a completely different experience with its own unique perspective.

            The public arena is where the MAIN problem is, I think. My jaw absolutely dropped when this whole scene played out. He’s going to have a lot to apologize for – if he even can.

        • Oh, to say that I can only empathize is the least I can do. I mean, I have no idea what it’s like to keep something like that a secret. So. Yeah. Easier for me as a result, without a doubt.

          I really like the points you’re bringing up – how officially stating that one is a lesbian goes so against what’s acceptable for men (two girls kissing, hot. Two lesbians that don’t buy into male privilege kissing, not) that it’s specifically not brought up by a lot of women, that’s a great point, and honestly, it’s not something I’d considered.

          I do feel like the writers (who didn’t handle this in the best way, or it might be the point of this whole thing, we’ll have to wait for another 2 weeks) were TRYING to balance the two. But. As you said, it’s not a balance, because they’re two different balance beams.

          And again, I think this is the writers showing their asses, but I got that Finn was calling her a coward for not being herself, and all that entails. But. Yes. You have salient points.

          (Sorry I’ve been spotty with comments, I’ve spent the day helping a family member.)

          Thanks so much, by the way. I really wanted to have some open discussion about this, because I ultimately think THAT was the point. What’s okay? What isn’t? And WHY. As more rights are afforded (as they should be) to the LGBT community, this is something that a lot of people aren’t prepared to deal with, I think.

  • dlwendel

    I think you’re right. I love Santana, but she’s not nice. And Finn, while adorable, has been shown to have his breaking point several times on the show.

    Frankly, I wasn’t even sure at first if he had outed her. I mean, it was a private conversation in a public area, yes, but Glee has those all the times because using the same school hallway over and over again is less expensive and time consuming that creating house interiors for every single character.

    • It’s confusing to try and decipher what the intent is here, and THAT is going to be the biggest problem for this show – was it a HUGE miscalculation on the part of the writing staff to give the appearance of Finn just breaking in the moment and talking to her, with horrible consequences, or did he just COMPLETELY hand his ass over (with huge repercussions to be expected in his own house, and how is Burt going to handle this? How is KURT going to feel? Kurt has specifically mentioned that he would never ever out anyone, or even hint that someone was gay, because that’s not who he is.)

      I hate that they did this to us right before a mini-hiatus.

  • fm

    I would have no problem at all with Finn’s comments (given the context of their argument and the fact they were both aiming to hurt) if it had been in private. But it wasn’t private – it was in front of Rory in the middle of the hallway – and to my eyes despite all of the pinky-holding Santana isn’t out at school. I mean, she used Karofsky as a beard last season specifically because she wasn’t ready to be out. She didn’t want people talking about her. She was clear about that.

    So I don’t think Finn meant to out her, but I do think that he wasn’t thinking at all about the time and the place or the fact that just because people might think she’s at least bi doesn’t mean she’s saying she is yet to everyone. Which is, you know, easy to believe because he’s a kid and she was really going after him, but still. I don’t think his head should be put on a stake, but I was really upset on her behalf about what happened.

    In conclusion: Kurt wins at everything ever.

    • fm

      I realize I may have been less than clear. I think both Finn and Santana were nasty and out of line, but if they’d been alone it just would have been an unpleasant fight and not the end of the world. They were both harsh. He’s not wrong that she’s acting as she does because she’s hurting so much, not that it’s his place AT ALL to call her a coward for not being out.

      That Finn says these things to her in public is that part that upsets me. He thinks he’s a great, compassionate leader who cares about his friends, but in this case he was a thoughtless teenager at best.

      • Oh, no no, you – as ever – were clear. And yes, calling her a coward for not outing herself, that’s a huge line that he crossed, and I don’t know how he’s going to make that right.

        The public arena is the issue, for sure. I’m left wondering if this is a flaw on the show’s part in not realizing how savvy viewers would interpret that, or if it was intentional. And how is it possible for a campaign to have a mention AND PICTURE of a minor’s sexual identity? I’ve not seen anyone yet even address that.

        I was really upset for her, too. Her tearful race from Sue’s office was just heartbreaking. Good hell. Not to mention her mini-breakdown as she was singing (and Brittany’s reaction, too! Oh, my heart.)

        Kurt Hummel wins everything, there should be no question about this. (And I’m very curious to see how he’s going to handle this at home.)

        • fm

          I hope against hope that Kurt and/or Blaine will tackle Finn on this issue (perhaps with Burt and Carole, but I don’t require them). I don’t have a lot of confidence in the writers that they realize what exactly Finn did here, given that they’ve created a universe where that ad can even be made (as well as the Sue ads, of course – I mean, I’ve just totally suspended my expectations of reality in this entire matter). I feel like they may think Finn was just snapping at her instead of actively outing her at school by the time and place of his comments.

          However, I know the Santana storyline is important to them (Brad in particular holds it dear to his heart), so this is a planned and pivotal arc. Maybe they’ll give it the time in all aspects. I’m just expecting that we’ll see Santana’s family fall-out and not much about Finn. I could be wrong. I’d LIKE to be wrong, since the topic of outing is repeatedly so important to Kurt.

          • Really, the writers should be taken to task for their haphazard story telling/what’s acceptable and what isn’t.

            And I’m in complete agreement (mostly because I’ve realized I had the same thought process and realized my wrong) that they didn’t understand the severity in this. It’s hard though, because as you pointed out, so many things are meant to be ridiculous and over the top, that when it’s something important, it’s hard to know what they’re trying to say.

  • Katy

    I’m kind of embarrased to admit I follow Cory on Twitter and he said the slap was real, not one of those fake Hollywood kind of slaps. OUCH.

    I think both Finn and Santana are at fault, but more so Finn, because being overtly mean like that is not his nature. Santana’s always been mean spirited. And yet another sign that the writers know nothing of how things happen in the Real World, there is NO WAY that the candidate ad outing Santana would ever make it to air, specifically because she is a minor.

    In conclusion: More Puck with Beth (without the damn ‘hawk [or at least tidy the thing up please]), more Rachel and Kurt as BFFs and more of the kind of STUNNING singing from Amber and Naya.

    • Pfft, I follow him! And Lea and Chris and Darren. We can be nerds together. :)

      Excellent point: Finn isn’t overtly mean by nature, so he really had to dig deep to get to that, didn’t he? Hmm, which suggests calculation, which makes things even worse for him, doesn’t it?

      And yeah – if a political ad like that aired? HEADS ON PIKES.

      That Adele cover…I’ve been listening to it over and over. They are flawless. I hate that I have to wait two damn more weeks.

  • Sally R

    I’ve been sitting here trying to figure out what to say about last night’s episode. It left me in tears and very upset. No episode of Glee has affected me like this. In fact, I’m hard pressed to remember the last time a TV show/movie upset me quite so much (and I cry easily). I have a really big problem with Finn’s outing. I agree 100% that Santana is horribly mean and said terrible things to Finn that were completely inexcusable. That said, what really bothered me in the episode and in people’s comments that “everyone knows” is that it doesn’t matter what everyone thinks they know. Nobody has the right to tell someone when they should come out. That’s such a personal decision and there is so much wrapped up in it. Finn was right in that the problem is with her. She’s scared and she’s insecure and she’s been in such denial. She’s only now coming to accept this for herself and whether or not everyone knows, no one has the right to someone who they are and how they feel.

    When I was in college I received hate mail telling me I deserved to die from AIDS and burn in hell for all eternity. This was from being seen on television when I was already out of the closet and “prepared” as best one can be. To still be figuring out who you are and then be outed on TV? I cannot even imagine.

    Plenty of people have had the coming out experience of telling people who say they already knew. But you don’t take away their right to tell you when they’re ready. Because depending on one’s background and experience in the world, it can be terrifying even if it ends up being so easy when you finally get to it.

    And I have to stop now because I’m crying again and I need to get back to work.

    • “It doesn’t matter what everyone thinks they know.” What I love about all of you and your thoughtful comments is that your getting me to think about this in ways I hadn’t. I mentioned above that I’m clearly coming from straight privilege, so while I am a supporting of the LGBT Community, I’m an outside booster.

      something that’s been niggling me all day (well, truthfully, for 3 seasons) is how women tend to be portrayed on the show. There really isn’t a sympathetic mirror to Kurt, who – in my opinion, is the hero of the show. Rachel is maniacal, Mercedes is selfish, Tina doesn’t exist, Quinn is a calculating bitch, Brittany is dumb-n-pretty, and Santana is the worst of the all, bitch wise. Where is the girl that we can always have sympathy from, that sets an example for how it can/should be?

      And on the heels of this, we have a character that is WONDERFUL to hate, because she can be so deliciously awful, and then to have such a heavy moment thrust in her face… It’s hard to know (in some respects) how to act. Obviously, since you know me in real life, you know that I cannot stand bullying, it’s a visceral reaction for me. Even when tables are turned on the bullies. But this DOES go beyond tit for tat.

      The utter horror of the stage she’s been thrust upon is…well, if ever there was someone that could hold their chin up and stare people down, daring them to challenge her, it would be Santana. But. She shouldn’t have been pushed on that stage.

      As you’ve said, no one does. Period.

      • fm

        You are SO RIGHT (of course) about there being no female equivalent to Kurt’s moral center.

        I actually think that Santana is particularly ill-suited to be thrust into the spotlight like this. She’s strong and snarky, sure, but on her own terms. She does it to keep people away, because she is so unhappy/uncomfortable with who she is. To have this kind of attention on her takes all of the power away from her. She isn’t going to be Kurt in Prom Queen. She is the antithesis of his strength and poise. She’s either going to crumple or rage, and I hope she doesn’t go so far as to push away all of the support that is going to be offered.

        • “She is the antithesis of his strength and poise.” And this, my darling, beloved friend, is why you are my beloved friend.

        • darkhawkhealer

          She is the antithesis of his strength and poise.

          This is where I stick my head into fandom’s proverbial sand and sing la-la-la until it goes the way I want it to. (Or I write it that way. *sheepish*)

          I think she has her moments of grace, though, which is why she’s my favorite female character. She’s got so much potential, so much of what she CAN be that oftentimes what we end up seeing can be disappointing.

          I’m still always going to heart her, though, no matter how the writers portray her. That’s what fandom is for, right?

  • A different Laura

    Santana took it over the line insulting Finn, and he finally snapped. Quite frankly, I expected him to slap her. I don’t think that he outed her to McKinley, either. It was not a nice thing to do, and perhaps not an ethical thing to do, but he was definitely pushed into a corner.

    Why, oh why, must they keep Klaine at least 5 feet apart? Leaving room for the Holy Spirit? Did they get their closeness quota in episode 5??

    I was frightened by how much mustached Blaine actually looked like John Oates. Really, really frightened.

    • Oh, I cannot imagine Finn slapping her, either the character’s choice or the show letting that happen. You wanna see people go after someone with pitchforks, put Finn Hudson in that position.

      I am SO TIRED of the boys not getting to (or not choosing?) act like a real couple, like all of the other couples. Surely in Glee, at least, it’s okay for them to SIT NEAR ONE ANOTHER.

      I cannot deal with the mustache. CANNOT DEAL.

  • Vyola

    I really wish the writers/directors would be a little more careful in their choices, if Finn talking to Santana in a normal voice in the middle of the hall is “in public” but Kurt talking to a crying Dave in a classroom doorway during class change is “not in public”. Pick a narrative convention and stick with it.

    • Oh, what a GREAT POINT re: Kurt talking to Dave in a classroom doesn’t qualify.

      I definitely think the writers failed to think this through, the more I linger on this, you know?

      • fm

        I definitely think the writers failed to think this through, the more I linger on this, you know?

        Hi! Welcome to Glee! :)

  • darkhawkhealer

    Okay, I think I’ve calmed down enough where I can put this out coherently. No, really. *g* Really! I have a whole bunch of things to say, in no particular order. they’re just things that I want to get out and express.

    1. I want to preface this by saying that my issues with this have nothing to do with Finn and whether or not he was provoked or whether or not Santana was being mean to him.

    2. Santana was not out. She’s stated multiple times that she wasn’t ready to BE out, and just because your social circle knows something about you doesn’t mean the entirety of the school does. I’m a lesbian and I can tell you that there really are levels of being out. Certain people can know, while others don’t, even if it’s unintentional. Just because a cheerleader hangs out with the football team, that doesn’t mean that the science nerds or even the baseball team knows her business. Considering how clique-centric high school tends to be in the first place, it’s completely plausible that “everyone” knowing Santana’s preferences really means the twelve people in Glee plus maybe the starting string of the football team and a couple of Cheerios are privy to that information.

    2. Finn fights dirty, he always has (remember his issues with Puck and Kurt in S1?). He also lets his temper get the better of him and when he’s in a situation like that he doesn’t think about the things he says or the consequences of his actions. He’s a teenager and a boy and as far as I’m concerned that just makes him an idiot about these things. Being that he’s a teenager and a boy and an idiot, I think that when he was fighting dirty in the hallway, he was doing it deliberately. He wanted to hurt her the way she had just hurt him, and so he chose to out her in the hallway, where more people than just their circle of friends could overhear.

    3. This is bad, and dangerous and wrong. Yes, yes, as a teenaged idiot boy he might not have been thinking about the consequences of his actions, but as somebody who has a gay brother, he should have. Above and beyond high school bullying – which I think we can all agree is bad enough – Santana now has to worry about the reactions of her parents, especially if she’s not out.

    4. Not every parent is as awesome as Burt Hummel. This is where I am going to play the race card, because I am herspanic and man, oh, man, do I identify with Santana. So, IN MY EXPERIENCE: As a herspanic, your family pretty much falls into two categories – Old School and New School. If she’s lucky, one of her parents will be progressive enough to accept that she is a lesbian. And by accept, I mean there will be a few guilt trips and “you’re doing this just to spite me/make my life difficult”s but otherwise it’ll function like DADT and never be mentioned again.

    If Santana is unlucky, and her family is traditional, then she’s looking at being berated, belittled, disowned or worse. This is a culture that still instills in its little girls that their job is to grow up, get married and have babies. These days the getting married part is optional, but having a man and raising children? That’s what it’s all about. Do you remember that movie Mona Lisa Smile, where all those girls went to college just so they could meet a guy and get married? For us, the college part is very much optional because what do you need to go to college for if you’re just going to get married and start a family?

    My mother accepted me when I came out to her as bisexual when I was 15 (I wasn’t brave enough to tell her I was a lesbian yet). By this I mean she rolled her eyes, said it figured and told me it was a phase that I would grow out of. Certain of her brothers, sisters, and in-laws suggested that I needed to be taken to church and exorcised. Ten years later, we still don’t acknowledge each other.

    My hispanic cousin cannot come out to his family (that boy is capital “G” Gay, as Brittany likes to say); because he already knows they’ll kick him out and he’ll have no where to go.

    I hope the writers portray Santana’s family as ultimately accepting of her, no matter what. I’m sure they’re not thinking what I’m thinking when I’m worrying about a teenaged television character who is facing similar problems to what I had in high school.

    I do want to say that I know that all races/religious sects have the capacity to be this way; I’m also just saying that as somebody who has been where she is in terms of where race, religion and sexuality are intersecting, this is why I’m pissed. Idiot teenaged boy or no, provoked or otherwise, television show or no, this is why I want Finn’s head on a platter.

    • 2. “there are certain levels of being out” – see, and here is yet another thing I’m not aware of, because I’ve not had to go through this, so thank you for pointing that out.

      3. “as someone who has a gay brother” – if this isn’t discussed at the Hudson-Hummel house, I will lose my damn mind.

      4. As someone that lives Herspanic (lol)-adjacent, I have noticed that with my Latina friends, as well. And as someone that also grew up in a repressive “You do not exist if you don’t marry a man and have his babies” culture, I see exactly where you’re coming from. My culture was also college is where you get your MRS, if you didn’t by your HS senior year, of course. The issues of coming out as a Mormon are identical to what you’re describing – and it is completely fucked up. I hope the Lopezes are accepting, as well. Or maybe confused and worried? I could deal with that. Ostracizing? Oooh, they don’t have it in them to write THAT story (see other comments I’ve made about their poor treatment of women on this show in general.)

      I am glad that you feel that you can TELL ME this, that this is a blog where you really can talk openly. I fully admit to approaching this from my own window, so comments like these are fabulous. I don’t know how I feel, still, about how Finn’s actions should be dealt with. Mostly I still believe it was a miscalculation on the part of the writers. But we’ll see, and hey, I like crow. It goes wonderfully with humble pie. I might need to have seconds. ;)

      • fm

        I’m interested that you say that you don’t think they’ll go there, because my totally unspoiled expectation is that Santana’s family is going to kick her out or be otherwise very, very unsupportive, at least initially. I think her story is going to be written as the flip side of Kurt’s, because he’s had the gold standard family story for gay kids, really.

        Which makes what Finn did that much worse, because it’s not just Sue calling Kurt gay before he was out and making him uncomfortable; even if it had come from a place of kindness to try to get her to be open about herself (not that it was here, but EVEN IF), Finn may well have taken away Santana’s home and family.

        • I feel like they’re not going to go there with Santana because they don’t go deep into ANY of the girl characters, exception being Rachel (on occasion) and Sue (on the rarest of occasions, then they write over it.) I guess I mean that I don’t trust them to actually make it the A Plot, and will throw it to the C plot two minute category. BUT I HOPE NOT.

          “Finn may well have taken away [her] home and family.” Something that lunk head didn’t even consider, which makes it more egregious. IT’S ALL JUST SO DAMN TROUBLING.

    • Sally R

      Thank you for addressing the racial/religous/cultural issues here. That was definitely on my mind too, but I didn’t feel capable of verbalizing my concerns. You did so very well.

      This episode left me devastated and more upset than anything I’ve seen on TV/movies in a very long time.

    • TBQ

      Yes, to all of this. I would also add that on top of all the levels of wrong that the outing entails (which you articulated well so no need to repeat) we also have had many indications that Santana’s home life isn’t exactly the most supportive and nurturing environment for Santana right now. Heck, in last night’s ep Santana mentioned being insulted by her grandmother.

      I’m not saying this is necessarily proof that Santana’s home is in an After School Special, but it adds to the many many many MANY reasons why outing Santana was an asshole move on Finn’s part. Santana didn’t want to be out, she had strongly believed/felt reasons for why, it is HER call to make.

  • Brunettepet

    Finn outing Santana made my stomach plummet and the story line just kept spinning out from there. The decision to come out should have been hers and hers alone and now it’s not. This could have devastating consequences.

    I hope Finn gets a lot worse than a disappointed face from Kurt and Burt.

    • it really REALLY needs to be addressed. Kurt – I imagine – will be livid. Also, it will be interesting to see how Blaine deals with any fall out on Santana’s family’s side – and maybe reveal more of his past.

      It’s just stomach churning, all of the feelings I’ve been having all day. Can’t stop thinking of this, now that the flood gates are open, you know?

  • Posting this here because I don’t think I can say what I want without spoiling. Also, perhaps I am privileged, being a white cisgender questioning female, but I think a lot of people need to take a step back, remove their feelings, and look at the bare facts. I understand, at the core, why it is wrong that Finn said what he said. I do. But he’s not the one that made the ad. And really, if they tried hard enough, I’m sure they would have found out anyway (I mean, a date, alone, holding hands, at fucking breadsticks?! Where everyone can see?) I also absolutely hate Finn and think he is the worst character in the history of the universe, so.

    I can’t read anything about glee on livejournal because they are all SO ridiculous. Like I saw one comment about it that was like “I can’t even with this show anymore last weeks sexual assault and now this” Um, maybe I missed something but I don’t recall a Very Special Episode about a Sexual Assault. Unless we’re talking about Klaine in which NOTHING HAPPENED YOU STUPID FANGIRLS. Aye.

    I think the problem is most people on forums/lj are not adults… whereas you and your commenters are.

    By the way, I completely agree with the one guy up there because you can’t just do and say whatever you want and not expect things to happen… things were extreme but what Finn said was not even that bad, especially since it was the truth and my grandma always told me that if you wanted to hurt someone the worst, you tell them the truth.. and it’s not like it’s Finn’s fault, and it’s not like everyone didn’t already know anyway. I understand that there are different levels of being out, but it’s SO OBVIOUS the way she looks at Brittany anyone with an IQ just a point above Britt would know.

    I would be attacked for this if I posted this anywhere else but here… While I agree it’s fucked to out someone, Finn is not as bad in this situation as everyone is making him out to be.. It’s kind of like one of those rube goldberg machines.. something small sets off a chain reaction into something huge. Everyone in this situation sucks, and everyone is to blame, I feel. (Though I also do think the writers amped up Santanas bitch factor for the big shocker at the end in order to make her more sympathetic, I know this is a trope though I can’t think of which one… I’m sure you do, as a writer) I can also appreciate something as big as this happening if only for everyone to stop pussyfooting around it and progressing the story.. every other character has had something shitty happen to them, it’s Santana’s turn now.

    Also Cory had said that the slap was real, and it did actually hurt, for what it’s worth. She should be suspended for that. I also think it’s funny how everyone rushing to defend Santana is completely forgetting her blackmailing Karofsky. In my mind, that is worse than what Finn did to her.

    TL;DR- I agree with your original thoughts but everyone is at fault here. She didn’t deserve it, but she isn’t an angel.

    I also don’t think there should have been a controversy.. Shit like that happens every day in our high schools and nobody gives a shit (until there are a rash of suicides, which in my eyes are too little too late.), especially if you’re not thin and pretty. Perhaps I’m just projecting but that’s how I feel.

    • I just CANNOT EVEN with the whole sexual assault thing. It’s aggravating to say the least, because that was NOT WHAT WAS HAPPENING. Ugh. Anyway.

      I do like the comment that talks about the repercussions for her as a Latina – if her family is old fashioned, in particular. That was something I hadn’t considered and really opened my eyes to the real dangers (speaking as if these were real people with real lives, because it’s still Glee, yes, but. I feel like the homosexual storylines are the ones where you can actually learn something and carry the weight on this show, so I’m going to remember that.)

      I DO think that there’s plenty of blame to go around here, and I don’t believe it all solely rests on Finn’s shoulders. Oh, that’s a good point, re: them amping this up to force the plot line, but if that’s what they’re doing (the writers) that makes me feel icky. I get really upset with the way women (especially their sexuality) get handwaved on the show. It ReALLY bothered me in The Substitute when Rachel was mocked for wanting to stay celibate. haha, what a slut! Kurt? Stay celibate as long as you can. Kurt: Okay. WHAT?!

      Hmm, I’m going to challenge you, though, on the who cares until there are suicides, then it’s too little too late. Because…if we can stop the freak outs and the awfulness before we GET TO THE rash of suicides…. You see where I’m going? But hey. I do welcome your thoughts here, and we do have some wonderfully thoughtful commenters here, which is A DELIGHT, let me tell you.

    • Sally R.

      You may not have meant to say this, but you just said that bad stuff happens, nobody cares, and therefore it’s okay. I don’t think it’s okay at all. Just because this stuff “happens every day” doesn’t make it right and doesn’t make it something people should just accept. There’s a lot of horrible things throughout history that were just happening and people looked the other way and people died. And this is no different. Outing kills people whether you choose to believe it or not.

      I think a lot of people need to take a step back, remove their feelings, and look at the bare facts.
      Easy to say if you’ve never been there. For those of us who were terrified to come out to family, who are mostly out but still have people we cannot tell, for people who risk losing their jobs… removing feelings is really hard. And some of us would argue that the bare facts don’t make things any better.

      Also the idea that “everybody knows” is no excuse. Nobody has the right to decide when someone else should come out. Nobody but Santana knows how Santana feels and coming out should be on her terms. For Finn to push her — even if it had been in private — is out of line. If you cannot relate to that, then congratulations for not ever being in the position of being scared to tell people who you are. We should all be so lucky.

      • You were misinterpreting my comment completely. I didn’t say it was okay. I was just simply saying everyone is up in arms about a character on a TV SHOW being outed, when teenagers in high school are outed every day and there is no outrage over it. Nobody cares until there are a rash of suicides, which is sad in my opinion.

        I can relate to it (I did say I was questioning after all, if you had read my comment and not just responded with some vitriol because I disagree with you), but I find it hard to believe Santana of all people, growing up how she did, never learned the lesson “talk shit, get hit.” That’s all I’m saying.

        • “when teenagers in high school are outed every day and there is no outrage over it. ”

          Honestly, I’m glad you clarified, because I didn’t get what you were saying either, and I was feeling really bad about it.

          But hey – let’s all keep the tone civil. This is an emotional issue, and if we’re all saying the same thing – which I think we are, just with different words – there’s no need to get snippy. This is for everyone.

        • Sally R.

          I’m sorry you felt my reply was vitriolic, as that was not my intent. I would say I’m having a bad day, but really I’m having a bad autumn. That’s not an excuse though, and I know it.

          Thank you for clarifying what you meant. These issues are fraught with tension and emotions run high for many of us because they hit close to home. I do hope that seeing this on a TV show makes the people who haven’t paid attention before sit up and take notice. Those of us who have been dealing with the issues for decades are definitely the minority and could use the support.

          Finally, good luck with your own journey.

  • It’s funny what we do or don’t notice. All this talk of Finn (yes, he did screw up) and Santana (yes, she did lash out too far, but no she didn’t deserve to be outed.)

    What hit me like a ton of bricks is something that hasn’t been mentioned yet, Santana’s description of her grandmother and how she was verbally abusive from day one, “I was in Kindergarten before I knew my name wasn’t garbage-face.”

    I didn’t dismiss that as hyperbole and, for personal reasons, I found that very, very hard to watch. If they do choose to go deeper into Santana’s family situation, I don’t see it going well at all.

    From a dispassionate standpoint however, I can see the following happening: Because she is a minor, the guy who ran the ad will face major backlash (as will Sue for ridiculous her ads.) This will lead to Burt winning, moving to D.C. and off the show.

    I’m up and down with the writing on this show. When they get it right, they really really get it right. But sometimes… There seems to be such a disconnect. Throwing characterization and development out the window for the sake of plot convenience is not the same thing as showing that teenagers can be impulsive and don’t always learn from their mistakes. I’m not sure if they always get that or not.

    • When looked at analytically, all of Santana’s life experiences certainly add up to one of hate and intolerance, which spells horrible future for her, for sure.

      It’s difficult – the troubling issues for the girls seems so glossed over, most of the time. And that moment (about the grandmother) should carry a lot of weight. Well, the careful watcher (like we all are) picks up on it.

      I really hope they show fallout and the damage it does and the CONSEQUENCES of this.

  • Fabrisse

    I really hated Santana last night. Even her abusive grandmother — and I agree with the poster above that Naya didn’t play that like hyperbole — did not make me sympathize with her. I grew up verbally and physically abused and by the time I was in high school I decided not to be a bitch. Bitch was a very easy default, but I chose not to be. So in some ways, I see Santana as my road not taken.

    Then Finn outed her.

    That was bad when I thought it was going to be treated like most Glee hallway conversations. When Burt said he was willing to sit down with her parents and help them through the acceptance part, my throat felt like it was closing. Then they showed that ad.

    I’m bisexual. I have had long term relationships with men and women both. Most of my friends know that I’m bi, and within my circle it’s not a secret. I am 50. I AM NOT OUT TO MY PARENTS. My father “knows” but has never been told; we’ll probably never discuss it. My mother hates people who are, in her terms, “faggy.” She’ll accept friends who are gay as long as they seem straight. She has made it clear that she will never accept a daughter who is gay or bi — and she always sighs and sympathizes with the poor parents who had to disown their disgraceful gay child.

    I am a public servant. I plan to run for higher office. I will run as an atheist in the middle of church-ridden city and as a bisexual woman. I have two years to come out to my parents before I’m ready to run for that next office. I expect to lose them from my life when I do.

    I cannot imagine what Santana is going through. I’m proud of Naya for her ability to keep both the bitch and the confused teenager real.

    And I really hope that Kurt Hummel and Blaine Anderson help Santana through the process — and perform an emergency rectal craniotomy on Finn without anaesthetic.

    • This is going to resonate so strongly (if it hasn’t already) with people reading this – exactly the reason why it should be a person’s choice, not thrust upon them. The repercussions for Santana are going to be HUGE.

      I cannot imagine a world in which Kurt and Blaine do not step up and help, I just can’t. I might have to break up with the show, seriously.

  • ComedyQuiche

    Wow, such a heavy, heavy episode. Hmm. I think a lot of things that are on peoples minds have already been said. I don’t want to beat a dead horse, really. I do, however, want to look at the way the school hallways fluctuate between ‘public’ and ‘private’.

    As someone pointed out, in the S1 with the phone call, Brit already said, out loud, around others, that she and Santana have sex. So there is that. Plus, in the episode ‘Sexy’ , Santana confronts Brit at the lockers, about why Brit wouldn’t be with her. And when Brit says that she loves San, but also loves her boyfriend Artie, San replies, LOUDLY, with ‘HE’s just a stupid BOY!’.

    There are so many times in public where this is discussed, and I hate, HATE how the writers used this as a convienent way to ‘out’ her with Finn. (PS. Is she out and out gay or bisexual? I am sure it doesn’t really matter, but she states how confused and turned on by everything she is in Sexy. And she hasn’t shown attraction to any other girl but Brit. Just wondering.)

    Ugh, I don’t even wanna wrap my brain around this anymore. San was awful to Fin and he reacted poorly.


    While I wasn’t bothered by the Kiss between Puck and Shelby a few eps back (And yay! He is 18!) I was oddly SUPER UNCOMFORTABLE with his flirting in the classroom. (Uh oh! It is a public area! Someone could overhear through the open door! ) As in, I had to look away several times. When he was at her house and cuddling with Beth tho? Made up for it. Wow. Be still my ovulating uterus!

    Finally, that Hall and Oates number? When I heard it, all I could think was of the montage in the ep of Rhodes Not Taken where April tries to win over the Glee club. Haha, Aww, I miss you Kristen C.

    • LOL at the Rhodes Not Taken thought. Oh, Kristen C, how I long for you to be a series regular. I love her character so, so much.

  • Denita

    Hey sweetie. I don’t watch this show, have no idea who these characters are or what this show is about. I normally wouldn’t have read your recap but I followed your link here and felt compelled to post a comment.

    I had something similar happen to me when I was a freshman in high school. I was 13 at the time and in no way ready or mature enough to deal with my sense of sexual identity. The person who outed me had overheard a comment I made in passing to my best friend (in a moment I thought was private) after an argument with another girl over the subject of bisexuality.

    The person who outed me had no reason for her behaviour other than utter pure maliciousness. She announced it loudly to a group of her friends and rumors spread through the school like wildfire.

    I was horrified, afraid it would get back to my parents. I loathed going to school after that; I can’t even describe how bad it was. My life totally changed that day and the experience is something I have never forgotten.

    I’m not sure what else to say, except it’s my opinion that no one has the right to out someone else. There is no excuse for doing such a thing, ever.

    • I am so, so sorry you had to go through that, ESPECIALLY at 13. As if junior high isn’t hard enough…

      I don’t know if you’ve had the chance to read comments, but the vast majority of people are talking about their own experiences and in a thoughtful way that definitely helped me see that I was only looking at one angle.

      *massive hugs*

      • Denita

        I did read the above comments. :)

        I thought everyone was very well-spoken even while disagreeing. I was impressed because I would imagine it’s not the same at other fannish places.

        And thanks.


  • mrmonkeybottoms

    Good points/views from other people! I realize that I’ve been looking at it as a straight person and not thinking of the fears of being outed (intentionally/mistakenly/dumbly/however) and potential violence or rejection from others and family.

    Santana threatened to out Kurofsky if he didn’t do as she wanted. This bugs me in light of what has happened to her. She, of all people, should’ve known how horrible it was of her to do that.

    Glee really was brilliant with this episode pushing everyone’s buttons!

    • You know, I’ve followed you on LJ for years because of how funny you are, but you’re also awesome. See: your comment here. You’re good people. ;)

      • mrmonkeybottoms

        Aw! Thanks so much.
        I really like this site. You guys are doing a great job!

  • Phinney28

    I love Kurt Hummel with every fiber of my being. He has been my favorite character since ep 1 and will be my fave character till the end of Glee but I also like dodge ball. When people don’t go insane and attack a poor little Irish cutie till he bleeds, it is a fun game.