Walking Dead 4.4 – Indifference

twd Carol introDon’t even act like that’s not funny.

Last week, Rick found out from Carol that she’s the one who killed Karen and David. Now what? Well, a lot, actually. After a lot of careful evaluating, of course. (And a silent observation of Rick’s Three Questions, which is awesome. And helped me understand why the ending had to be the way it was.) Guys, I have a LOT to say about this episode, so strap in.


Rick, looking pretty worn down – a red herring to make us think he’s contracted the Eye Bleeds? – wraps his busted hand and thinks on thangs. (And stuff.) He then flashes back to when Karen and David were moved into isolation as he fills a gas tank. (Not gonna lie, I totally thought they were going to reveal that he was the one who set Karen and David on fire.)

Carol has her knuckle-knife prominently displayed when Lizzie comes by (this is pre-infection. The timeline was wonky here, probably to throw us off). Lizzie proves that her sister Mika knew what she was about when she called Lizzie “so stupid.” Lizzie thinks it’s neato-cool that people come back as something, because then it’s like you live on forever. You’re like an angel, but more bitey and drippy. [pops gum, twirls hair]

Carol is probably wondering what the hell she got herself into with this white girl, and starts explaining how she can’t be afraid to kill. (Cut to Rick watching her soothe Karen before stabbing her in the back of the head. Damn.) You have to buck up, little soldier, and do the hard things. (Cut to Rick seeing someone dragging a bloody body out of the prison. Presumably this is also Carol. Question one: how many Walkers have you killed? The answer here is none.)

Lizzie tries to wrap her head around this lesson, and says, “Okay, Mom. I mean, Ma’am.” Uh, Carol is not okay with being called Mom and gets really upset with her.

Don’t. Don’t do that again.” Wow, Carol, her dad just died and you’ve been Knife Whisperer, so give the kid a break. She’s afraid, okay?

Well, that’s not okay. What Lizzie needs to do is to fight being afraid. “You fight. Fight it. And then one day…you change.”

Guys, if you’ve watched the episode through, then this scene just told you everything about Carol. This is not the Carol who cringed while washing Ed’s dirty shorts in the quarry’s lake. (Note: I like this Carol. I am not even going to get into the anger the Caryl shippers must be feeling, okay?) This is a shell who happens to look like Carol. Bear with me.

Out on the road, Tyreese zones out while washing his clothes in the river as Daryl and Michonne try and figure out where they are.

Protip: To find True North in the Northern Hemisphere with a working watch, first, undo Daylight Savings on your watch. (Go back an hour in summer, up an hour in winter. Unless it’s been a year in the apocalypse and you haven’t bothered with it in the first place.) Turn so the hour hand is pointing in the direction of the sun. Half the distance between the hour and 12 on your watch face, and that’s Due South. The opposite on your watch is True North. Is it 4PM? The trajectory from the 8 is True North, 2 pointing Due South. You’re welcome. (The opposite would be true for Southern Hemisphere folk: 2 is North, 8 is South.)



Bob tries to reach Tyreese through his anger and grief, but Tyreese is pretty happy right now feeling dead inside, so save your “it helps to keep moving” bullshit, Bob. Tyreese isn’t a dummy and your psuedo-therapy helpfulness …isn’t.

So remember how Rick has those three questions? The first: how many Walkers have you killed. In this case with Carol, they weren’t Walkers, so the answer is none. The second question is how many humans, and the answer is obviously two. The rest of the episode is going to be Carol’s answer for the third question: why? She tells Rick as they head out on a run that it was to save everyone. She saw them as a threat and was trying to save lives.

Rick quietly says, “Maybe.”

Ty’s group find a dilapidated gas station – they need to get some wheels and keep moving. Daryl happens to find a bit of jasper on the ground and says that it will adorn someone’s gravesite. He knows everyone in the prison, it seems, knows them knows them. He takes the rock with him. And our hearts. (More on the similarities and differences between Carol and Daryl at the end.)

Meanwhile, Rick and Carol pull up to a ‘burb with the hopes of finding medications in case something happens to the other group. There’s a car with graffiti written into the dust. People there? A sign for another group? Then they leave the door open, after seeing keys inside. It’s clearly new, and they’ve just left a clear indicator to any other Raiders that they’re on the scene, and that was piss-poor thinking, Sheriff.

Daryl finds a car he can hot wire, except for the battery being dead. Well, there’s an auto shop at the gas station, so maybe there’s still one on the shelf that works. There’s a garage that’s full-up with Walkers, though, so best keep looking. They have to whack a path through the kudzu to get into the adjoining building, and Ty has gone a little nutso, getting out his anger and aggression on some poor, defenseless kudzu (Ha! Kudzu is the WORST INVASIVE SPECIES, omg. However…

Protip: it’s edible, is excellent forage for livestock, and you can use the vines to make baskets, etc. Also: in traditional Eastern Medicine, it’s found to be useful to treat alcoholism and hangovers. I’m just mentioning that, because wow, does that tie in nicely with ol’ Army Medic Bob’s story.).

Where was I? Right, Ty going bananas on the plants. And hey there, here come some Walkers pouring out of the shrubbery. Michonne beheads two, the others fight off a few as well, and Ty pulls one out and on top of himself. NOT HOW WE DO THINGS, TY. Daryl pulls it free and Bob shoots it. And now everyone is aware of Ty’s death wish. Should make the rest of the trip a lot of fun.

Rick and Carol move through the houses looking for supplies. (I noted that a lot of that should be expired by now, and was happy to see them point that out. Still, they would still be efficacious.) A Walker comes down the stairs, surprising them. Carol does nothing (more on this!) and Rick gets it with a look at her. They hear more sounds upstairs, but it turns out to be two scared kids with a basket of fruit they’re willing to share. Friend or foe?

We learn that the two kids are Sam and Ana, Ana has a compass tattooed on her ankle, and they were with a larger group, but now it’s just them and they basically have no idea what they’re doing. They did find some fruit and are willing to share, though? Sam has a dislocated shoulder that Carol cleverly fixes. The holding a counterweight trick was really smart, and something I’ve never seem them do on TV. These two kids are grateful and a pair of sweet idjits. They may not have survival skills, but they do have love! Aww, they won’t last. And Rick starts asking them the Three Questions with a weary face.

Daryl checks the Bait-n-Sip for a battery, finds one with dry cells.

Protip: Check your battery! A typical 12V car battery will have two posts, one positive, one negative, and possibly a long plastic cap between the two. Pry that up and you’ll see 3 holes. See liquid in there? No? It’s dry. You have to put distilled, filtered water down in there, give it a jump to recharge, and then it’s good to go. Which is exactly what Daryl does.

Michonne pulls Ty aside to have a little conversation about anger making you do stupid things. And stupid gets you killed. And she’s not angry anymore, not like Ty believes. She knows now that the trail to the Governor has gone cold. Sure, she’d kill him given the chance, because that’s what right – this is important to know how she views rightful execution. But her anger is gone. (And she doesn’t know why. Best not to examine those feelings of safety and comfort that the group at the prison provides too closely, because Michonne doesn’t do emotions anymore.)

...unless it's when she's looking at Daryl, because come on. And in this moment, Michonne was all of us.

…unless it’s when she’s looking at Daryl, because come on. And in this moment, Michonne was all of us.

Daryl notes inside the Bait-n-Sip that the survivors did themselves in Jim Jones-style with some antifreeze. Bunch of dummies. It’s best to ride it out to the end, in his opinion – DING DING, NOTE THIS – which Bob doesn’t agree with. Hmm, Bob. Really? They find a trapped Walker and Daryl leaves it. Bob does the smart thing and ends it with the business end of the Bathroom Key, lol. Gah, can you imagine how filthy that thing was?

The two sweet kids ask Rick if they passed his test. With a heavy sigh that bodes no good, Rick says they’re at a prison, but there’s a flu (NO, IT ISN’T. OR STOP GOING FOR ANTIBIOTICS. Virus ? Bacteria, which is for what you use ANTI-bacteria/biotics.). At the prison, people are dying.Kidsare dying, so take that into consideration, Sam and Ana. They ask Carol if her kids got it, and she pffts! and scoffs, and is all, “As if!” which continues to answer the “Why?” question Rick is secretly asking her.

Rick agrees to let them continue helping them search – Carol knows they’ll be extra hands and shorten the trip, but Rick doesn’t look like he believes that – and with a sigh, hands over two guns. My first thought was that this was stupid, those kids are playing with them, and they’re going to be killed. I’m happy that I was wrong about that.

Back on the road, we learn Bob’s story. He was found walking and brought to the prison. He’d been with two different groups before, and was the sole survivor each time. Oh, so he’s not a Red Shirt, he’s a Red Shirt Generator. Got it. He started drinking to sleep, to get the images out of his head. And he knows that picking up and slamming down that wine bottle was what brought those Walkers onto them and led to Zack’s death. Daryl says, “Nah,” but I say, “Uh, yeah.” Daryl is all about being a good leader, but sneaky-style. He doesn’t tell folks what to do, he just feeds them enough positive reinforcement so that they’ll wantto do the right thing. …have I mentioned that I love Daryl Dixon yet?

The car works (see previous question posed if you’re still unsure on my Daryl-feels) and the push on.

While digging through mostly expired medications (they’ll still take them, because that stuff still is effective for up to five years past expiration date but do not take penicillin/etc willy nilly, omg, just DO NOT) Rick asks Carol if taking the kids back with them is the right thing to do – not the humane thing, omg, Rick you are showing your hand and I like it, but the right thing.

Yeah. Duh.

Rick: [not buying it – not buying her, her casual attitude, nada y pues nada]

Carol: So are we ever going to address the smoking elephant in the room? Because look. I did what I thought needed to be done and just handled up on mah bidness. You can be a farmer, Rick. You just can’t only be a farmer. Sometimes you gotta kill and smoke out some potential Walkers, yo.

Rick: Uh huh. Say, I never murdered two of our own.

Carol: Nope. Just the one.

Oh you did NOT pull the Shane card! Shane was not right in the head and Shane was bad news with a capital Merle and Gov. I would take Merle Dixon over Shane, if you compared them both in their last week.

Rick: He was going to kill me.

Carol: So were they.

Here’s the difference: when someone is a Walker, they aren’t themselves. They have no humanity left. When someone is a human, I think they have the right to die as they see fit, if they’re not actively a danger to others. Karen and David were not actively a danger to others. They were isolated and locked away.

Dr. S, with his switchblade of righteousness to the brain for patients who were goners, only took that final anti-Walker step when Doc Hershel indicated they had just died. I did get the impression from Carol, however, that she wasn’t happy that she had to do it, but that she felt she needed to do it. That’s important to me, because I don’t want to dislike Carol. And I don’t. And Rick isn’t finished collecting answers to his Third Question.

Ty’s group moves through the Veterinarian Hospital quietly, because they are freaking warriors. Bob finds a wee nest with books (Enter A New Dawn and Fear: Pathology) and something blue that I immediately thought was an explosive device and began searching for the trip wire. He shoves something in his bag and they push on.

Carol and Rick find some tomatoes, and if ever we needed proof that Andrew Lincoln is not from the south, it’s that he doesn’t take those green tomatoes. Son, you slice them up thick, salt and pepper them, roll ’em in corn meal and fry them babies up! Mmm. While they pick, Rick praises her for the shoulder thing. Well, that was a trick she learned the third time Ed dislocated her shoulder, so. Yeah. Thanks. I love this reminder of her past, and it’s important, because I think this is the first time I’ve realized that she’s just swapped out her old abusive life for a new abusive one. More on this in a bit.

Rick brings up the fact that Carol won’t ever say “her” name. “Who, Sophia? Sophia Sophia Sophia, and she’s dead, eh. That’s someone else’s slideshow.”

Wow. Rick then talks about how Lori would make pancakes on Sunday, and how she was a terrible cook. But she made them, because she wanted them to be a family that did that: had pancakes on Sunday. The point wasn’t that they were good, it was that she was striving for something she felt was good – that wholesome family life. That was what was important, the trying to do better. Carol is still in survival mode, I realized. Not that it’s a problem, they need to survive. But they also need to maintain their humanity. (In Rick’s eyes, that is. Certainly Lori felt this way. I think Rick was just like Carol, and his eight months as a farmer post-Governor has made him see that they have to evolve from just surviving, like Lori was trying to get them all to do. And I do believe his Third Question has been satisfied at this point.)

They find the basket of fruit the girl Ana had been carrying, some blood, and then…her leg. Beyond that, she’s being eaten by two Walkers. Carol quietly says, “Come on. We should get back.” Rick looks sad and resigned. And I’m wondering why the hell they don’t take out those two biters, put a bullet in Ana’s head, and then get the gun back. Jeez, they went through a lot with Morgan to get those guns!

Good thing Ana came with a passion fruit glaze.

Good thing Ana came with a passion fruit glaze.

Bob and Michonne find loads of meds, and Michonne follows instructions to put everything in her bag. Ty and Daryl found everything on their list, which is awesome, and it’s time to roll out and get back. They smartly move through on tip toes, Daryl on point, when they stumble into Walkers. They bolt, but get forced off their return path by more Walkers – these with the Eye Bleeds. Bob tries to jam cages up against the door to keep them from coming in (fail) when a Walker gets at Ty and he’s all, “STOP. HAMMER TIME.”

They have two choices: go through the Walkers with the Eye Bleeds and possibly risk infection from the blood spray, or take their chance with the Walkers on the stairs who may not have the Eye Bleeds. They choose the stairs.



Rick and Carol hole up in a house, quietly waiting to see if the boy, Sam, made it. Carol pragmatically says he might be fine, but it doesn’t matter. We have to go. “Sorry about the watch.”

Rick is all, “Dis bitch?” Something to note: I’ve seen how people in fandom bitched at Rick and said that Sophia was his fault because he knew they couldn’t stop and look for her back in Season 2. He knew he had to think of everyone’s safety and keep moving because of that herd. Which is bullshit, he wasn’t responsible for Sophia then, she took off in fear. And what is Carol doing right here? Exactly what Rick did – keeping them moving for the safety of the others. If that’s wrong, then Rick was wrong, and I don’t think either of them is wrong in either of these situations. They need to go.

Daryl’s group gets pinned in at a stairwell with Walkers on both sides coming at them. They break a window, jump across to an adjoining ledge, and Bob falls, almost dropping his bag over the side. But all three have bags of meds, it’s okay to let it go. It’ll suck, but… Bob won’t drop it, and Walkers swarm below, grabbing it and almost tugging him off the ledge. Finally he wrenches the bag out of their grip, and the rest are all, “This guy is dedicated to medicine! Wait a minute…”

Daryl opens the bag and see a bottle of whiskey. (The blue label. It was a trip wire for an explosion, just metaphorically.) You dirty liar! After all the building up Daryl did, you lie to him like this? Daryl takes the gun from Bob and gets in his face. He’ll go back to the prison, administer meds, and then Daryl is going to administer a beat down.

And then I will offer my hand and pull you to your feet and we'll be square, 'cause that's how I roll.

And then I will offer my hand and pull you to your feet and we’ll be square, ’cause that’s how I roll.

“You should have kept walking.” Ouch.

Rick and Carol wait by the car until Carol decides it’s long enough. Time to go. Rick agrees and locks Carol out of the car.


Rick: They might have lived. It wasn’t your decision to make. Ty will kill you – he almost killed me just for not doing enough. If everyone finds out…

Carol: No one has to know. (WRONG. Wrong thing to say.) I thought you were done making decisions?

Rick: I’m making this decision for me. If everyone dies and it’s just us, Carl and Judith… I can’t have you there.

Carol: I stepped up. I had to do something.

Rick: No you didn’t.

So…Rick is kicking her out?? He explains that she won’t be taking the girls, they’ll be looked after. And Carol is strong, he says. She’ll survive.

Carol: …maybe.

How many times do you think Rick – in his former life – had to remove kids from abusive homes? I think he’s drawing on those experiences here, honestly. Those girls aren’t loved by Carol, she’s giving them the basics: shelter, food, water. And knife training. And not much else. (No nurturing.)

She thought she was doing right, Rick. It's what she knows. (Please come back, Melissa McBride!)

She thought she was doing right, Rick. It’s what she knows. (Please come back, Melissa McBride!)

Daryl is looking at his bit of jasper. He knows everyone. He cares about everyone. He doesn’t show it in mushy ways, but in ways like this: knowing that putting that rock on someone’s grave will make another person feel appreciated, and like their loved one was not forgotten. So when people let him down like Bob did…

Michonne cuts into his thoughts saying that she knows he was right about letting the Gov go. “I don’t need to go out no more.”


Carol hands Rick her watch (no! How will you know where you’re going?), saying it was a gift from Ed. “I should have given it away a long time ago.” She’s clearly talking about more than the watch – it’s everything to do with her former life. Being a mouse, being beaten, making excuses, doing things she wasn’t proud of, but doing it because she had to survive, and anything is acceptable in that situation. But I think she’s not left that. She should have given that away a long time ago, and I think she’s finally acknowledging here that she hasn’t. Ed was replaced by Walkers, and she can’t see past that. She’s still putting on foundation to cover a black eye. She’s still wearing long sleeves in summer to cover bruises.

As a woman who was in an abusive marriage, let me say this all from experience. She wanted people to ask her about those long sleeves. She just couldn’t bring it up herself. She wanted Rick to ask her about Karen and David, she just couldn’t bring it up herself. And she was always going to have an excuse for why that was okay, just like she always had an excuse for Ed. But when she showed how indifferent to Sophia she’s become, how indifferent to Lizzie and Mika she was (Don’t call me Mom. None of my kids are sick, thank god. …Um, Lizzie is in the infirmary, Carol.), that shows Rick how emotionless she is and will be for some time.

She’s letting herself die inside, and he can’t have that at the prison where they’re trying to do more than just survive. They have to stop putting foundation on black eyes. They have to stop the black eyes from happening.

She gets in the car from earlier and drives off. He watches her go before climbing in his own vehicle to head back to the prison. The song “Serpents” by Sharon Van Etten begins playing (with a few changes from the original to make it fit the episode.)

It was a close call. Sitting in the back of the room with a bowl I had thrown at you. And you didn’t know. Looking at my black eye, I feel safe at times. Certain emblems tell me it’s time. Serpents in my mind, looking for your crimes. Everything changes. I don’t want life. Everything changes.”

Carol’s a potential snake in the grass (metaphorically speaking. I don’t think Carol is evil, please understand. I just think she can’t be trusted in the way Rick needs to trust her).

I mean, there is a parable in Aesop’s Fables called “The Farmer and The Viper,” for heaven’s sake, summed up perfectly in Natural Born Killers: A woman finds a half-frozen snake and holds it to her breast for warm. It wakes and bites her. “Why did you do this to me?” The snake says, “Look, bitch. You knew I was a snake.” (I love that movie, sorry.)

Carol said herself that you have to change, you have to stop being afraid. But do you want to live with someone who can’t feel fear? I do think that’s dangerous. (I also think that with some therapeutic work Carol will be fine. She’s just still in that abusive mindset. She’s still a snake: it’s in her nature to survive.) Carol said that Ed could be charming in his way, and it wasn’t bad. She’s willing to put up with a lot of bad to just get by. She’s not fighting, just dealing.

Last season Rick said to everyone, “We can stay and fight, or we can go.” Carol stopped fighting right here. Hell, she didn’t fight Rick on this decision. Instead, she left.

Daryl had a sort of similar abusive background, let’s not forget. It’s what helped their friendship grow. But instead of seeing everything as half-empty, Daryl continues to try. He continues to connect with people, to care. He leads, he doesn’t just act. He wants what’s best for the group.

Carol acted alone, and worse (to Daryl’s thinking, is my thought), she lied. She lied to Tyreese, she watched Tyreese get all up in Daryl’s grill, watched him hit Rick, watched Rick beat him. And kept that lie. She tried to make Carl lie to his dad. If she came back and Rick told everyone – which he would – then either Tyreese would kill her, dividing the group horribly and leaving her, you know, dead, or it would divide the group irreversibly. I think Hershel would side with her, leaving them down a doctor. I think Maggie and Glenn would be torn with how to think. I actually think Carl would support her, not Rick. And Daryl would choose Rick and feel sick about it. (And I don’t think Michonne would support her, because they hadn’t turned.)

So what are your thoughts here? GIVE THEM ALL TO ME, nom nom! (And will she be back? I think so. I hope so!!)

And a quick reminder to anyone new (which, hello!): we are SPOILER FREE here. Feel free to talk about anything leading up to this episode, but nothing from the graphic novels or future eps, please and thank you! Speaking of Future Eps, the next one is RIGHT HERE.

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  • Karen

    I don’t know if you’re right about Michonne – she did kill the old man in the cabin, after all, and he hadn’t turned yet either. She could have just knocked him out, but she katana’d him in the back. Guess we’ll never know. Oh, and Carol did kill the stair walker – she pulled her knife out and stuck her in the head. Which is why she’s kneeling down when they hear Sam and Ana upstairs.

    I understand why Rick decided to banish Carol. But it wasn’t for the group – it was for his family’s safety. And as Rick isn’t on the council, it really wasn’t his decision to make. He wanted to be a farmer and a dad, not a leader. I think he should have taken Carol back to the prison and locked her up until the council could have decided. I’m sure Daryl, and a few others, will want to hear Carol’s reasons from her mouth, not just what Rick says he thinks went on. Yep, the group is going to be torn apart by both Rick and Carol’s decisions.

    One think Rick forgot though – NEVER underestimate Carol.

    • Re: Michonne and the old man in the cabin. He was crazy and threatening them. Their lives were on the line with all the Jehovah’s Witness Walkers at the door, remember? And he threw the door open to let more in? I mean, the guy would have died regardless, imo, and this way he wouldn’t die by being eaten to death. Just my two cents.

      (And did she? I thought Rick handled it and she crouched down. I’ll have to rewatch. I have to write so fast and pause and start so often – hey AMC, you can send me screeners, you know! – that sometimes I just miss stuff. I do catch a lot, though. Like, you know, 99% of stuff. :D)

      My way of seeing Rick’s decision is that his family is clearly the most important thing to him, no question, but they also represent everyone in the prison trying to make that a family. (Like how Daryl called him his brother last season. They’re a family by choice.)

      I totally disagree about bringing Carol back for the council to decide, though. I think that will make a HUGE divide for all the reasons I listed in the recap. But I can understand (and believe!) that’s the better thing to do on paper. I think in this world they’re living in that Rick did the right (and awful) thing. PLEASE KNOW THAT I LOVE CAROL.

  • Karen

    I think there will be a HUGE divide even with what Rick did. Tyreese will be really mad that Rick let Carol live. Daryl will be upset that Rick left her on her own without the option of someone (hopefully him) being by her side (remember Andrea’s death scene? “No one can make it on their own now” “They never could”). Michonne? She may realize that none of them have clean hands, and I think Hershel would have loved to have preached forgiveness. But I guess we’ll see how it all plays out when the group gets back. A lot of how they react will be based on how Rick spins it.

    Of course, all these characters are simply the ideas of a group of writers. How they react is simply how the writers want them to react, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to us, the viewers. I don’t really believe that the Carol I’ve watched for 3 years would be so callous with human lives, but that didn’t work for the story the writers wanted to tell. They want Carol to suffer, so suffer she must.

    • You know, with how much Tyreese seemed to come to terms with things this episode, I don’t know that he’d feel that way with Rick. I think banishing her (in a way of describing it) will be some sort of justice in his eyes. I’m hoping so, at least. “A lot of how they react will be based on how Rick spins it.” Yep, but I do think he’ll be up front and factual when he does tell the group.

      Well, I guess we’ll just disagree on Carol’s arc. It makes sense to me, but I knew going into writing this recap that I was probably a lone wanderer. :) I’m just excited for next week. I wish I could hold out and watch huge chunks of this show instead of having to wait every week. I WANT TO KNOOOOOOOOOOW.

      • cindergal

        You know, I’m not so sure Rick will be up front and factual, at least at first. He’s kept things from the group in the past. I think he will spin it to a certain extent. But I’ve been wrong before. ;-)

        And I’m afraid I’m with Karen about Carol’s arc – this is not my Carol, who I loved throughout season 2 and especially 3. What happened during the break – which by all accounts was relatively peaceful and uneventful – to make her have such a major shift in character? The writers aren’t doing a good enough job to convince me of why, at least not yet. I’m afraid of Carol’s character and storyline going the way of Lori and Andrea before her, and that will not make me happy.

        • I’m wondering about those 8 months. It was peaceful, we’re told. Carol moves to a prominent leadership role in the council. Rick has hung his hat up, literally and figuratively. She’s finally getting to be the person she wondered about (I imagine).

          And then chaos comes back. Everything she’s been through must come back, too, the fear of losing security and loved ones. So she has to go back to survival mode, and for someone with her background, that’s like muscle memory. Don’t feel, do.

          I’m clearly painting her character with my own life’s brush here, but that’s how I’m seeing the shift. It’s a 360 she’s made, and I think it frustrates her because she’s sure it was the right thing to do by this new world’s standards.

          But I do NOT want her to be killed or off the show. I don’t want the Andrea treatment, either. I want her story to spool out and be richly layered like I’m imagining it’s going to be. *shrug* But I knew that I would be a Party of One on this, lol.

          • cindergal

            I can see all the things you say as being reasons, I just wish I could see it on my screen. I am hopeful that it will be as rich and layered as you say! It (Carol’s story) is just not completely working for me at the moment, but I sincerely hope that changes.

            • I definitely don’t want any more shortcuts, which I feel the 8 months of peaceful living were. (And because they’ve not told us anything much!)


  • Chris

    I DID NOT EXPECT THAT ENDING! It makes more sense with the three questions format (and would Bob have been brought in to the group if Rick was the one to find him?) and judging her actions in conjunction with her words.

    Also, I enjoy your protips. Someday I’ll have to go through the old recaps and collect them all. :)

    • I didn’t see it coming, either!!! I love that the show can still catch us off guard like this. And wow, I can only imagine how angry the fans are and feeling blindsided. I’m trying to remember that there’s still a whole lot of story left to tell before I get upset.

      You know, I don’t know about Bob and the Questions 3 if Rick had asked. I don’t think he’s killed anyone – human – so it would be moot. More important would be “how can you contribute and not be a burden?” I don’t know if his medical knowledge outweighs his addiction at this point in the show. At the start of the episode? I wouldn’t have questioned it.

      Ha, I’m glad you like the protips! I find surviving VERY IMPORTANT. ;)

      • Chris

        Right up until he showed that he was willing to be eaten by Walkers to keep a hold of his ticket to oblivion, I thought his skills outweighed his possible addiction.
        I don’t get the logic behind the name “Skineaters”, but it’s nice that they keep giving us these details to show zombies are an unfamiliar concept here.

        Do you think the Walkers are effected by the eye bleeds? Can they carry and transmit it, or is it something the ones with the eye bleeds had to die of? (Also, do you think this particular outbreak originated at the Vet college? There have to be all sorts of diseases around for the students to study.)

        • Yeah, they definitely eat more than Skin, right? I guess they’re just trying to think of any and everything, huh?

          I 100% believe the Walkers are hosts to the Eye Bleeds for a period of time. Hear me out: if they’ve eaten, they have living flesh inside their undead bodies. There’s enough to keep those bacteriophages going for a few days. Now, if it were a VIRUS, those puppies come equipped with all sorts of ways to self-preservate, so they could be carries for that, but we know it’s not a virus because they’re going for anti-biotics. (I’m not letting that go, ha!)

          But I would say this outbreak came from the pigs, a la Swine Flu. We’re close enough genetically that a lot of worrisome buggaboos are transmittable, although I like your conspiracy theory with the Vet college! We’d need to observe more of their world – further cities, etc to see how far it’s spread.

  • cindergal

    I totally agree with you that killing Shane and killing Karen and David cannot really be compared. They’re not the same thing at all (and my Carol would never think that! ;-)) I equate Carol’s actions more to Rick being ready to give up Michonne to the Governor. It was Lori – or the thought of Lori – that made Rick change his mind. Not Daryl or Hershel, even though he knew they both didn’t want him to do it. It’s Rick’s family that keeps him grounded, keeps him human. And especially now that he’s brought Carl back from the ledge, he’s going to protect those kids no matter what. (and Carol asking Carl to lie for her certainly didn’t help her cause here, I’m thinkin’.)

    There’s a lot of Rick hate amongst the Carol/Caryl fans as you might imagine. I had to just step away from the Tumblr, because I still love Rick. Even though personally, I think he should have brought her back to the prison and let the council decide her fate. Yes, it would have divided them, as you say, and it would have been a mess. But his banishing her will probably do the same thing – and it’s going to get him in trouble with the others. But daddy Rick thinks she’s too big of a risk to his kids to take that chance.

    Daryl’s reaction to Bob was interesting, particularly given (or because of?) Merle’s addiction issues. I do feel sorry for Bob, though. He’s just so sad – and now he’s got Daryl Dixon pissed off at him. :-/

    Oh, and that beautiful smile Michonne gave Daryl? Made my husband a Daryl/Michonne shipper, LOL! I’m still Richonne all the way though. *g*

    I will tell you that my family immediately predicted as soon as the show was over that when Daryl finds out about Carol he will take off after her (with Michonne! cinderhub adds. Hee!) We shall see if I am totally wrong once again.

    • I could not agree more about Rick, and how knowing Carol wanted to Carl to lie to him was definitely a huge factor in his decision process. You don’t pull on Superman’s cape and you don’t mess with a man’s son.

      You know, at first I was right there with you about Rick bringing her back. And then I watched The Talking Dead. :D Chris Jericho had a great point that I’d not thought of about how divided that would make the prison. With her there? Loving that sweet face of hers as we do? It would get ugly fast. I think that the anger will shift to Rick, as you’ve also said, but I think he feels like it SHOULD be. He can deal with everyone’s outrage. He can deal with that a hell of a lot more than her possibly being killed by Tyreese. (Rick hasn’t seen that Tyreese may have calmed down from his massive rage.)

      I think you’re spot on again with Daryl being affected by Merle’s addictions here. It’s like, not a-freaking-gain. Not another person claiming to have my back and then it’s not true in the slightest. (Obv. Bob isn’t on the level with Merle, but it’s a muscle memory, that snap to anger.)

      I could honestly get behinf Daryl/Michonne OR Richonne! I JUST WANT MICHONNE HAPPY. Her maybe more than anyone, honestly. Oh, would that make for a great character/story arc for all three of them id Daryl and Michonne go after her. I don’t think Carol’s gone for good. I’m hoping, at least.

      • cindergal

        No, I don’t think Carol’s gone for good! I know nothing, but the Governor is still out there, and wouldn’t they be an interesting match, hmm? And hippie boy with the fruit is still out there, too. Wonder if he’ll show up again.

        • Karen

          If Carol ever hooked up with the Governor, I’d hope that Daryl would put a bolt in her head himself and then spit on her corpse. That would mean she was pure evil, as she knows what TG did to Maggie, Glenn, Milton, Andrea, Merle and the Woodbury group.

          • cindergal

            You misunderstand. I meant match as in one against the other. I wasn’t implying she would side with the governor.

            I can see her as pretending to side with him and infiltrating whatever kind of operation he has going on now, though.

            • I knew what you meant! (I had just gone to bed and didn’t get to reply) Talk about a ticket back into the prison: the Gov’s head!

            • Karen

              Oh. Okay. Got it. Sorry – totally thought you wanted Carol to hook up with The Gov.

              I, too, would like to see her go toe-to-toe with TG. I’d love to see her give him the treatment she wanted Andrea to – sleep with him, give him the night of his life, and then slit his throat whilst he slept. Heh.

      • cindergal

        Oh, and Chris Jericho was awesome (and not bad to look at /shallow), particularly in light of last week’s Marilyn Manson disaster. “Thank you for being lucid,” says Hardwick, LOL!

  • Karen

    Truthfully? I wish Carol was gone for good, just so I wouldn’t have to watch the character given the Andrea treatment. She was the only character I could identify with, and now I can’t like her anymore. I can’t love a murderer, and I can’t root for her. So if she never showed up again, I could just write scripts in my mind and have her being awesome and having adventures and finding true love. None of which I think we’ll ever see on this show. MMB has fallen to the Darabont curse. Or the Kirkman curse.

    • I just don’t see Carol getting the Andrea treatment. Andrea never developed. Andrea was pretty much the same in the beginning as she was in the end, with better aim. She also committed the cardinal sin (imo) of being boring. And I didn’t think she ever learned anything. Carol has. Again just my two cents.

      (I think there’s a lot still to come for her, and there are a lot of assumptions being made without the whole story. *shrug*) I’m a glass half-full sort of gal.

      • Karen

        Yeah, I’m just venting my hurt about TPTB turning my gal into a cold-blooded murderer, ya know? You just can’t come back from that. It doesn’t matter if she spends the rest of her life being Mother Theresa. She can’t bring Karen and David back to life. She can never go back to being a character I can whole-heartedly love. And neither can the rest of the group. Unless the writers force their characters to, for the sake of the story. Even you know this to be true – you used to ship Carol and Daryl, and now you’re shiping Daryl and Michonne. You know the Carol/Daryl ship is dead in the water now. Carol isn’t worthy of love anymore.

        • Well, if it helps in anyway, at the time when she killed Karen and David, there wasn’t an antibiotic option. It was isolation and sure death. People are hanging on slightly longer than Patrick did. From Carol’s timeline: afternoon knife lesson that Patrick excuses himself from, he dies that night, wreaks havoc all night/morning. So Karen and David are visibly sick (Patrick just looked like he had an upset stomach) and go into isolation. Karen’s weak and coughing up blood while Carol checks on her later that night. Surely she’ll die, best eradicate the virus ASAP. I totally understand Carol’s thought process – I think she should have discussed this possibility with someone first, is all. But not worthy of love anymore? I don’t agree, but hey, you’re certainly entitled to have the reaction you’re having.

          (And FTR, I shipped in a manner of speaking because I like both characters and want both happy. I didn’t necessarily ship a romantic relationship. The only OTP I have on this show is Michonne and her katana! Hahaha.)

  • Aaron L


    I didn’t get to watch last weeks ep til this sunday night, and got to watch back to back episodes, but last weeks is old news now, so Ill comment on this ep. I didn’t read any other comments yet either, so if someone else said what im about to say sorry for repeats.

    I do not agree AT ALL with Ricks end result. I do agree with what you said tho about Ricks philosophy and why Rick felt he had to do this to Carol. And I agree with what you say about Carol and why she is the way she is now, BUT…. that is NO reason to shun her, and abandon her. She is OG family. Rick was all F-ed in the head, bat shit crazy, and no one shunned him last season, when quite frankly he was worse then Carol is now. Yeah get her some help, let her know this shit cant fly anymore. Rick didn’t think he could come back, but hes trying. At least give Carol the chance to try. And screw wha wha Tyreese(everyone has lost someone in a horrible way, ask Carl how his mom died) let him know what happened and why Carol did it and if he cant handle it then he can grab another walker and get all smooch face with it again. Don’t get me wrong I like Ty, and Rick (this is the first time I haven’t liked him), but right now they are pissin me off.

    If anything put her in a cell “to sit and reflect” have her around( but not too close) Judith a lil more, it worked on Michonne. But to do what Rick did without at least talking to the OGs first especially Daryl. Tsk Tsk. I think Daryl and I think even Carl are not going to be happy at all.

    Loved the review. how you tied “the three questions” into how Rick wasn’t just asking the kids, but Carol too…. Spot on
    Protips were GREAT too, I know who I want to have my back when the shit hits the fan ;)

    • Hey!! Ahahaha, OG Family. [flashes complicated gang sign]

      I don’t think I would do what Rick did here at all. But I understand why his character did, and think it makes sense for his character. I think letting her cool her heels in the prison, as you mentioned, was a great idea and more in line with how I personally would have handled it. But once a small town Sheriff with the world on your shoulders, always a small town Sheriff with the world on your shoulders?

      It’s fascinating to me to see how vehemently everyone (and I mean all over the internet) is reacting to this. The show is designed first and foremost to be Rick’s journey, with some side flashes of other people, so the show is inherently Team Rick. What’s awesome is how many people are Team Carol, despite the show being told (mostly) from Rick’s world view. A lot of that is a testament to the awesome actors this show has. Holy cheese balls, I cannot wait for Daryl’s reaction to this. NEXT WEEK WILL BE INSANE.

      And hahaha, I am TOTALLY who you want on your Zombie Apocalypse Team! I mean, I can make my own reloads, yo! :D

  • Katy

    I have way too many thoughts about Carol to voice them properly.

    But I am with you on Rick leaving the green tomatoes. Hubby (who’s a Southern boy himself) said they could go back for them when they were ripe. I gave him a look.

    I was also almost ready to chastize Rick for leaving so much stuff in the medicine cabinets until Hubby pointed out some of that could be cosmetics. (what the women can’t look pretty during the zombie apocalypse?)

    • Hahahaha, my husband and I GASPED when they weren’t picking the green tomatoes. Oh, how sad for them not to know how DELICIOUS fried green tomatoes are….

      Oh, but would you want to wear a stranger’s makeup? Blech! ;D I kept thinking: check bedside drawers and kitchen cabinets! If anything, grab the spices. A lot of those have medicinal uses and are still viable!

  • Aaron L

    Oh yes I totally agree with why, from Ricks POV he thought he should do this, and Love this show for it. Because, for the first time, I have not seen it Ricks way, or been on his side. Most shows would be afraid to let their star take any heat from the fans that love them so much, but this show. Oh yeah. Its on. Rick was just plain wrong. Carol was part of everyone there. Theres going to be some pissed off peeps.

    • “Most shows would be afraid to let their star take any heat from the fans that love them so much, but this show.” YES. Yes yes. Life is messy. People do stupid, terrible things. Mistakes happen. The best of people do things that are positively baffling. That’s what makes life INTERESTING. How boring would the show be if everyone acted just as we expected? No one would watch! Ooooooh, next week is going to be good.

  • Allie “The Wife Norman Reedus Doesn’t Know He Has”

    From a rabid fan of Team Carol, this was wrong on so many different levels. Where was the last minute keening from Carol to Rick, “But tell Daryl (“my ovaries explode”) I still love him! And tell Daryl (“my ovaries explode”) to come find me!” But this is what I love about the Walking Dead. Bad things happen. Bad things like sacrificing screaming baby pigs. And Carl’s hair starting to grow into a Daryl (“my ovaries explode”) wig. So of this season so far, I say this: The Walking Dead – I still love you, but I don’t like you right now. This season is the Thinking Walking Dead season. I see lots of little trails that are leading to things that are about to get nuclear.

    Note: Did anyone else notice that the sign at the gas station read “Hell” using using numbers? So FUCKING clever I can’t stand it. Also, if you haven’t already see Conan’s hilarious piece on Norman Reedus learning how to use a cross bow, it’s worth a giggle.

    • Ha! Maybe Carol believes she’ll be allowed to come back after things cool off? Like, what if she showed up at the gates with the Gov’s severed head? I bet they’d let her back in, and I bet she knows it. :D

      OMG, I love your comment: “I still love you, but I don’t like you right now.” I think you’re speaking the truth there and in the most mature, sensible way. I LOVE this show. Love the characters, love the darkness, and because it’s dark, horrible things happen. Carol being forced to leave is HORRIBLE. But I really can’t imagine it’s permanent, though. (I don’t want to!)

      Ha, I did notice that about the numbers!! AWESOME. I like the little clues and signs the survivors of this world leave for any other survivors. So. Freaking. Awesome.

  • Josie Morin

    The way I see it, Rick had to leave Carol behind as he can no longer trust her not to take matters into her own hands. For all he knows, she’ll stab Carl in the head the moment he has the sniffles.

    Doesn’t mean I don’t love Carol. And I think this isn’t the end of it all. Can’t wait to watch the new episode omg omg

    • I totally agree with you! And I know people are hating on Rick with the “But! Shane! The two dudes in the bar!” But Rick was a COP. He was a SHERIFF. He was responsible for the safety of others, was entrusted with that safety and acts on it. You know, with PERMISSION.

      The others formed a council to get everyone’s advice on what to do, that was what Carol had agreed to. And then she violated that with her actions, both with the knife classes and the killings. BUT I STILL LOVE CAROL VERY MUCH AND THINK SHE WAS ALMOST RIGHT.

      I cannot WAIT for you to watch the new ep! *zips lip*