Game of Thrones 7.6 – Beyond The Wall

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  • Ana G

    I CALLED IT! I CALLED ICE DRAGON!

    I do not feel vindicated. I feel awful (in a good way. Just, dead ice wight dragon is. Not. Good.). This episode was….a lot.

    • Zack

      What will he breathe? Ice? Blue fire? OMG. Terrifying. Yes.

      • Ana G

        Terrifying is 100% correct. Maybe the equivalent cold fire? Like blasting by extremely high speed extremely cold air. AKA something that will kill you super dead. I’m scared and I can’t wait to see it at the same time.

      • It’s Grim Up North

        Just a thought but if he does still breathe fire then he can melt things. Things like ……… walls.

        • Lilley Berrington

          But could one dragon bring down the entire wall? All the same, I think by the end of the season they’ll make some plan to get through the wall. I suppose the Night King can fly over with the dragon and take some others with him, but eventually they’ll have to somehow either knock down the wall altogether, or split the wall so there’s a passage through. Either way, we know they’ll get past somehow, which is why they’re a threat to the people on the other side in the first place, right?

          • It’s Grim Up North

            It doesn’t have to bring down the entire wall – just melt a breach. He could start at the gate to Eastwatch for instance.

          • Phalanx

            I’ve long thought that the last scene of the season would be an undead dragon exploding the Wall with ‘fire’ and the dead army stepping over the rubble. Fade to black, now wait for 2019 possibly to find out. It has to come down, right? Something that massive, in terms of entertainment value, was built in order to be brought crashing down.

          • Zack

            I think something that massive was built to be brought down, in terms of storytelling/entertainment value. And an undead dragon seems a fitting way for that to happen. So that’s my personal prediction for the final scene of the season. UnViserion exploding/melting a huge section of Wall, the undead stepping over the rubble. Fade to black, sorry viewers, see you in 2019.

      • Lanie

        But the dead have no breath! At least that’s what I learned from watching Buffy…

    • Lyanna Mormont

      Same here. Same here.

      • Dennai

        I think, however, that this put the final nail on the ice spiders’ coffin. What the hell you need ice spiders when you have undead polar bears, undead giants, (presumibly) undead direwolves and an undead freaking dragon?

        • Lyanna Mormont

          But… ice spiders!
          The maesters did mention them very recently. Fan service/fan baiting, or foreshadowing?
          No undead direwolves! That would break my heart. (Which, of course, means they’re going to do it.)

          • Ana G

            I could still enjoy ice spiders! Well by enjoy I mean stare in awed horror at my screen. And I’m with you 100% on the direwolf thing….

    • moata

      How do you even kill a zombie ice dragon? Do you suppose they can make a super-giant dragonglass spear from all that stuff they mined?

      • Lyanna Mormont

        Since the zombie dragon was raised by the NK, killing the NK should do the trick. But then getting to the NK with a zombie dragon guarding him may not be the easiest thing… Dragon duel? Jon rides Rhaegal, dismounts, Rhaegal fights UnViserion while Jon fights NK. (Meanwhile, Dany and Drogon are off on some suicide mission due to something Bran saw… or maybe they’re fighting UnViserion while Jon fights NK, because Biggest Dragon may be needed to fight the Undead Dragon.)

  • Ana G

    Ok now a more coherent comment. I was terrified for our boys all throughout, especially that bit with Tormund. I’m so sad for Beric though, losing Thoros. No matter whether you ship it or not, it was deep between them. I love Sandor being kind, for him, when it happened.
    Also Tormund’s type is apparently “tall af and can kick my ass”.

    Not digging the Arya+Sansa tension, or the implication she’ll steal her sister’s face. They’ve both been through so much but can’t seem to meet in the middle. Also “Sansa, if she were written by a woman, would TOTALLY own that she’d been brutalized and raped to her sister” TOO REAL. I watch with my mother and we both had the same thoughts you did.

    Finally I liked the Dany+Jon scene on the boat, it felt more earned after all that telling and not showing. She did need to see the Walkers and I knew she’d get an eyeful of those scars. I do wonder, given all the talk of succession AND Dany’s infertility this ep if they’re doing that TV thing that implies Jon is gonna be able to make babies with her. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s where it went, but it wouldn’t thrill me either.

    And I’m so happy we have a clear idea of how the war can end: the Night’s King is the keystone. Take him out and it’s over. It won’t be easy but at least there’s a *plan* more or less.

    (Tiny ps, Ohana means family; Aloha means hello/goodbye. Unless that was an on purpose joke and I’m meebling :)

    • OMG, Ohana, yes!!! I’m slightly tipsy and emotional and I got the word wrong, SO THANK YOU. Yes yes. Corrected.

      AND SERIOUSLY. Women DEEP DIVE on everything. Even when we’re “not like other girls” [eye roll]. And I’m starting to see your POV with the “Jon and Dany could make a baby” thing, even though it’s not what I’d want.

      AGREED times 100000 about the boat scene finally translating on screen as something emotional between Jon and Dany. Basically I need another 24 hours to process what I saw.

      • Ana G

        “Basically I need another 24 hours to process what I saw.” Hard same.

        I’m comforting myself by giggling at Tormund and The Hound’s cock/dick exchange because…well why not?

        • THAT WAS THE MOST GLORIOUS EXCHANGE IN SEVEN SEASONS.

        • Lyanna Mormont

          That leer at Gendry and “Not too smart that one, is he?” are also up there.

          • Ana G

            True! Tormund is the best, isn’t he?

      • Lyanna Mormont

        Not all women do. Especially not in strained circumstances, or to someone who has essentially become a stranger to you. Some women will only talk about the shitty stuff when they feel safe, and some won’t talk about it at all.

        • Lanie

          Agreed Lyanna. I went through an absolutely shitty relationship many moons ago (not like Sansa’s, but close) and still to THIS day I don’t like to talk about it. Not even with my family. It’s easier to forget and move on from it if you don’t have to relive it by talking about it. Also no, I wouldn’t have talked at all about it with someone who is basically a stranger to me, even if she was my sister.

    • And hahaha, I could TOTALLY buy the Thoros/Beric ship, please. POOR BERIC!!!!

    • Lyanna Mormont

      I get the uneasy feeling sometimes that we’re building up to a scenario of one of them having to sacrifice themself to save the world, and Dany deciding it has to be her because Jon can go on to have a family/children and she can’t.
      I hope I’m wrong, because the implication that you’re only worth something if you can procreate is not one that sits well with me.

      • Dennai

        I’ve always had the feeling that neither of them would survive at the end of the series. We’ll see.

        • Lyanna Mormont

          I’ve suspected that as well, but all this emphasis on successors and Dany’s (presumed) inability to have children…

          Speaking of, how the hell does Dany know she can’t have kids? It’s not like an OB/GYN told her. Sure, she has spent a lot of time in the sack with Daario without getting pregnant, but that could be him. If all this is based on something Mirri Maz Duur told her… well, maybe she should consider MMD might have been lying, or wrong?

          • Dennai

            Well, it’s a witch curse coming from the witch who had just proved was good at her craft. It’s normal Dany gives credence to her words.

            • Lyanna Mormont

              Very true. I just want her to keep an open mind, though. It may be true – but it may not. Don’t assume, Dany!

              If she does get pregnant, we could have a reversion of my scenario above, with Jon choosing to pull the self-sacrifice play so Dany and the baby could live.

      • Lilley Berrington

        I can’t agree more, Lyanna. It is similar to arguments they (the media) often make about disability in TV shows and movies. The disabled person needs to be taken out of the picture, either because they will propagate their flawed genes, or because they are somehow holding their able-bodied partner back. I also think it may be Dany who dies though. There’s a fan theory that speculates on this, which I won’t expand on now, as I can’t exactly remember how much is said and not said about it in the show. Either way, it is one of many theories, so it doesn’t matter much. Since Dany is now no longer the rightful ruler (John being Rhaegar’s legitimate son already means they might kill off one of them, especially if the one can’t continue the Targaryen line.

      • Ana G

        Oh damn, I hadn’t thought of that!

        I’m with you on it not being a good implication if it does go that way but I think with all the work they’ve put into telling, if not showing, that the show ships JonxDany I think them having babies together is likelier. Or I hope anyway.

  • Zack

    Oh my god! <3 and you got this up SO FAST.

    Before the actual review, I have to say that after the episode concluded, one of my first thoughts was regret about posting zombie dragon speculation in one of your earlier episode discussions. I promise I was just predicting something I thought would be cool that would make sense for story progression, I didn't actually know at the time! Thank you for this quote in particular "Zombie dragons. That’s a thing. I mean, I guess we should have seen that coming with the polar bear?" since I remember saying that is what brought it to my mind :D holy cow, it was incredible seeing it actually happen anyway. If only I could say, R.I.P. Viserion, because of course he's not, is he?

    It really was a stunning, fantastic episode, fully fitting that GoT trend of things going completely bananas in the penultimate episode of the season. Happily, the Dany/Jon scenes finally sold a believable spark of attraction. It’s not like Dany’s looks at Jon in earlier interactions weren’t noticeable, but they always came across simply as moments of growing respect for him as a leader and an equal, not romantic interest. But they made up for it here, and then some.

    Next, Sansa-Arya. I don't know what I could add to your summation, not personally being a sister to a sister. So all I can ask…is it a troubling sign that after the LF/Sansa talk about how Brienne would be duty-bound to intercede in a conflict between the sisters, Sansa subsequently sends Brienne on a mission to Kings Landing, where she would be unable to interfere with anything Sansa might be plotting? Hopefully I’m just underestimating her…

    And the massive action set piece, now. Last time I said it felt pretty clear that someone (or more than one) in that group of Jon’s wasn’t going to return. I must admit to relief that if anyone had to go, it was Thoros. Nothing against the character or actor. Only because a priest who can cast Life on his party automatically lowers the tension of big conflicts. And that battle was absolutely worthy of any high budget theatrical release, even if it was dragon ex machina. I’d have paid to see this episode in theaters. Can’t be alone there, right?

    10/10 will watch 5x again before the finale.

    • OMG, by darling, precious pal, Zak. I mean, how could we NOT speculate a dragon would be turned? We thought one would die, so to me, that’s a natural leap.

      A FRIGHTENING LEAP. BUt nonetheless.

      And I agree that this episode finally gave me (on the boat) a moment of real human connection between Dany and Jon. This, I can support.

      The Ice Battle was amazing. Beautifully shot, choreographed and acted. It was tense and nerve-wracking. STAKES HAVE BEEN RAISED. Amazing. Just simply amazing. And heart-breaking, too!!

      I have already watched twice! I WILL WATCH AGAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS, I’M SURE.

      • Zack

        AGH I read your review again, and I definitely prefer your view of Sansa sending Brienne away to the one I posted….but even then, WTF Sansa, Brienne is entirely capable of handling LF. I want the sisters to hash things out and get on the same page! Together, they would be such a force. And thank you for the kind words. I do feel better about it now.

        • DrewHolton

          Actually, I’m not so sure that Brienne could protect Sansa from Littlefinger, because he’s not a physical threat. He’s something much harder to protect against, and Brienne is the wrong tool for that job.

          I do think that Sansa is up to something though, because she did the opposite of what LF suggested and sent her away. And she looked very thoughtful after she sent Brienne on her way.

          • Zack

            Are we supposed to have gotten some message than Brienne is all sword, no brain?

            I wouldn’t sell her short. Littlefinger might, though.

            • Lilley Berrington

              Don’t think anyone was implying Brienne is stupid. However, she is known for being a good fighter, whereas LF is known for being very clever. Besides, LF doesn’t play by the rules of honor, whereas that’s Brienne through and through. She couldn’t possibly beat LF at that, because she knows nothing of manipulation.

            • Lyanna Mormont

              Not no brain, but definitely more comfortable with a tangible threat than with intrigue. Remember her with Cersei in KL at Joffrey’s wedding?

              • Zack

                True. I’m coming around on this. For all the moments this season “I know exactly what he wants”, or “I don’t trust him, but I need the Vale.” etc, they’re showing Sansa’s no idiot. So maybe she picked up on his comments regarding Brienne and saw them the same way the viewers did, the way he meant them. As an obstacle to his plan.

  • Jenn

    Jfc this episode. One of my dragon children is gone. Please tell me that fire stays snuffed because we can’t have zombie dragonfire. I can’t survive it honestly. Although the alternative might be zombie dragon ice-breath which is worse? Idk. I kept hoping it would crawl out of the ice on it’s own and be like “no but I’m not dead bitches”. This was not the way I hoped that would happen. Upside, Dany is definitely gonna make the Night King pay. Hopefully with some armor for the other babies because I won’t survive the deaths of any more dragons.

    Also Sandor/Tormund was the funniest bits.

    Also also, I fully agree on the assessment of the fight between Sansa and Arya. I love the murder child but no way in hell does this feel in character for her or Sansa or the actual way sisters interact. They would’ve been whisper yelling all the bad shit they endured (to keep put prying ears). And what exactly is LF’s game at this point? I feel like I’m not sure what he wants now. Is he secretly working for Cersei? Is he hoping that Sansa will kill all her siblings and then forget he’s the devil and marry him? Like…what is he hoping to do besides sow more discord? And also, why in the holy hell would Sansa tell him anything? She literally has said now multiple times that she doesn’t trust him and knows what he’s about hut suddenly she’s confiding in him? Dear god please let these two ladies be playing him harder than he thinks he’s playing anyone.

    Also Tyrion, my lovely fellow, knows what he’s about. I get Dany’s distrust, but he’s right. She needs to start grooming a successor. She needs a plan in case something happens to her. It’s not bad advice.

    Anyhow, is it next Sunday yet?

  • menomegirl

    I’m going to have to watch the episode again but I find the timing of a raven from Cersei arriving when it did a bit too convenient. I’m too tired at the moment to strain my brain to recall what exactly was said … but could someone please tell me WHY in the seven kingdoms would Sansa send anyone south to KL knowing they are at war with the Lannisters? Sending someone out during blizzard-like conditions? It makes no sense to me at all.

    I’m with everyone 100% on the sister thing. That doesn’t make much sense either. Drama for the sake of drama. Pfft. And where was Bran? Off smoking a doobie in the Godswood and talking to the weirwood tree? Pfft.

    Other than that, it was a great episode!

    • Ana G

      “And where was Bran? Off smoking a doobie in the Godswood and talking to the weirwood tree?” I am CACKLING at that mental image.

  • Andy Street

    I’m quite conflicted about this episode, tbh.

    On the one hand, SPECTACLE and EVENTS OCCURING. The dialogue is great as ever. And it all looks absolutely beautiful.

    But then this is also the point where, for me, this whole precarious edifice that they have been throwing together this season comes crashing down under the weight of logic. And it’s all because they are in such a rush to get to the finish line and aren’t spending the time to set stuff up properly or allow situations to develop naturally. People (Well, Starks mostly) are acting stupid and out of character in order force events to a crisis point so we can get a quick resolution and move on. They can’t afford to spend any time building up a believable romance between Jon and Dany so we just keep being told about their attraction to each other by various Captain Expositions. (I initially thought they were going for a mutual respect thing, but I now fully expect Jorah to be spending the entire trip back to Dragonstone at the prow just stoically staring out to sea pretending he can’t hear what’s going on below decks. Not that Jon has any choice in the matter. You know, because of the implications).

    People have been moaning about the time it takes people to travel around all season, and it didn’t really bother me as you could just assume that time is passing – but now we have to either accept that they spent a week on that island, or that ravens (and dragons)can fly at around 1000 miles an hour. All because they didnt have time to build up a situation where Dany is agonising about whether to follow Jon or not, without needing to get a message. Compare it to Stannis’ rescue of the Nights Watch in S4, which was both signalled over the course of several episodes, and also a surprise twist that really worked. (Jon needs rescuing by unexpected third parties a LOT).

    • Lilley Berrington

      Also, if we assume the time jumps make sense (because we don’t want to see the boring traveling), how come Dany didn’t fly north with John before, specifically so he could show her that he was telling the truth about the threat?

      • Dennai

        Duh, Amazon hadn’t delivered her amazing winter outfit yet.

        • Lyanna Mormont

          Drogon’s amazingly invisible wound hadn’t healed yet.

          • Lilley Berrington

            They could have gone on the other two dragons though, or both ridden on one.

          • Dennai

            You went for the plausible explanation. Not fair :(

    • Dennai

      Yeah, the whole “send a raven/fly a dragon” thing bothered me A LOT when I watched the episode. I would much prefered if Melisandre was still around and told Dany that she saw in the flames that Jon would need the help, or Bran somehow managed to contact Dany. It would have given more consistency to the pass of the time issue, since we are removing the whole “Gendry ran back to Eastwatch, a raven from the Wall arrives to Dragonstone” from the equation. At the same time, it would have given more weight to the discussion with Tyrion, since Melisandre-Bran words could be doubted with much more ease than a SOS raven. Finally, I would have cut that discussion before we see Dany deciding to go North. As gourgeous as that shot of the dragons leaving Dragonstone was, it would have been better if the audience didn’t know for sure if Dany is coming to the rescue or not before the fact.

      • Ana G

        ” As gourgeous as that shot of the dragons leaving Dragonstone was, it would have been better if the audience didn’t know for sure if Dany is coming to the rescue or not before the fact.” on the one hand, you are correct. On the other the only thing that saved me from a heart attack at the end was knowing the dragons were coming.

    • Lyanna Mormont

      There were so many scenes I wanted in this episode that we didn’t get. The recognition that two of Jon’s companions have traveled with Arya. A moment where those trapped on the Island talk about the unlikeliness of Gendry being able to get them help in time, Jon saying “It’s a better chance than if he hadn’t gone,” and “At least they’ll know what happened so they can make other plans” and someone saying “At least one of us has a chance of survival.” A scene after Dany and crew return to the Wall, discussing what to do now that Jon is (presumed) dead. Debate of whether to let Winterfell know, with a mention of Sansa’s name, and the Hound’s reaction to that. A talk about who will go back to Dragonstone/KL with the wight and who will stay to defend Eastwatch against the army that is still coming. So much stuff!

      • Lilley Berrington

        I don’t think Dany believed John was dead. That’s why I think she said “just a little longer” to Jorah when he said it was time to leave. Also, I think the Hound must already know Sansa is at Winterfell. I’m also assuming they didn’t discuss who goes to KL and who not, because we will see it in the next episode.

        • Lyanna Mormont

          That’s why there’d be a debate – someone would say they should send a raven to Sansa, and Dany would be all “No, we can’t be sure he’s dead, he might still make it!” and Jorah would look at her, and Davos would stare at the ground, and the Hound would growl about needing a drink, and maybe Beric would say something about how many times he’d been assumed to be dead, and Tormund would wish Brienne was there so the two of them could go back out to rescue Jon together…

  • moata

    Holy shit, this episode.

    I AM SO STRESSED RIGHT NOW. I always watch GoT with a glass of wine and I was so appalled by all the things that I forgot it was there and then I necked half a glass as the credits rolled.

    About 15 times I was heard to say “this was a stupid fucking plan, Jon Snow. I hate you and I hate this show”.

    When Tormund was being attacked I made a series of high pitched whimpering noises and clawed at my own head.

    I need some kind of massage or sedatives or both right now.

    Having said that, there were a number of annoying things in this episode (besides Jon leading good men into a ridiculous battle they couldn’t possibly win. AGAIN)
    – How did they know Gendry was such a good runner? Or was this is in the “blokey banter bonding deleted scenes”? And how did he know how to find his way back?
    – Time and space really don’t mean anything any more do they?
    – Where did the armies of the dead get massive fucking chains from, Home Depot?
    – You can’t just carry people’s faces around in a leather satchel. At least put them in a ziplock baggy first. (ps the 2nd face Sansa pulls out was Walder Frey’s. Did anyone clock who the first one looked like?)
    – How many more ways can Jon Snow’s life be nearly lost/saved? Kind of a bit too much of it this week for believeability (yes, I know this is a show that now has a zombie dragon )

    • Lilley Berrington

      Also, why did the walkers not chuck spears at John and the rest when they were surrounded? Could it possibly be because they wanted Dany to come with her dragons so they could kill one? If so, how did they know she would come?

      • Andy Street

        Maybe one of the Nights King’s rapidly expanding arsenal of powers is that he is also a Greenseer?

  • Lilley Berrington

    Wow! Just wow! So let’s see…

    Things I loved:
    1. Sandor throughout! Oh my goodness he’s a grumpy bastard (not literally), but I was laughing almost everytime he made a retort. Also, kicking the white they caught and chucking stones at the walkers, almost as if he was bored and annoyed and just needed an outlet. I like him more and more each episode.
    2. Tormund finally saying out loud how much he likes Brienne, and the Hound’s reaction! Oh Brienne, do give the guy a chance! I love how he’s the first person to see her beauty from the start! Also, Tormund was having such fun teasing the Hound there!
    3. Thoros “funny old life” comment. It summed up things perfectly and was very touching. I never particularly cared about him, but this part and his conversation after about how he was drunk in battle made me care a little more than before. I also love how Jorah chatted to him to distract him from his pain; or at least that’s how I interpreted it. The parting memory of grandeur, as you said, Laura.
    4. Other characters keep forgetting there’s a flaming sword! Those swords seem awesome. Is it supposed to be the Lord of Light lighting them up?
    5. The creepiness of the white’s scream! Chills!
    6. Sandor saving Tormund.
    7. Dany’s almost childlike observations about heroes to Tyrion. Also, Tyrion’s remarks to Dany about how she could have handled the situation with the Tarly’s differently. He’s always the voice of reason, although poor thing’s voice is falling on deaf ears recently. Regarding Dany’s decision to attack the Lannister troops and flying off to save John and the rest, I think she made the better decision. But Tyrion provides a sort of balance and moderation, and I do think he manages to prevent her from going overboard. There’s an expression I’m looking for that would better explain what I’m saying, but I can’t put my finger on it right now.
    8. That soundtrack when Dany arrives with her dragons!
    9. The interaction between Dany and John in the ship, how he calls her Dany, and how emotional she gets when he says he’ll bend the knee. I liked the fact that John’s voice still sounded hoarse, because I’ve often noticed characters’ voices sounding completely normal after a huge battle and found it unrealistic. Also, is it just me, or did Dany sound younger (like in season 1) again in this episode? It sort of carried over how nervous she was and then her pain at losing a dragon. I also liked that John and Dany held hands. This doesn’t really mean particularly much, but I really saw their attraction strongest in this episode.
    10. Of course I’m devistated about Viserion, but wasn’t that just an epic way to end the episode on a climax?

    Random comments:

    1. Wow Gendry; pace yourself! I’m obviously super glad he got back in time to send a raven to Dany, but if that had been real life, I’m not sure he could have kept up that pace and arived without collapsing.
    2. It doesn’t seem realistic that the Hound, Jorah, Beric, and especially Tormund and John all made it out alive. However, I’m not complaining. I mean, if John died now it would make his resurrection seem a bit anticlimactic, as the only reason for it would have been to convince Dany of the threat from the north. She could have seen it for herself anyway if she just flew north to check, right? If Jorah had died it would have made the whole story line of being cured redundant. If Tormund had died… well perhaps it wouldn’t have done that much to the plot, but I want him to go back to Brienne.
    3. I’m not crazy about the Beric/Thoros ship. As I’ve mentioned before, people often interpret close friendships on TV to have an element of romance, which I think detracts from the ability to appreciate portrayals of actual deep platonic friendships. Of course, this could be the case with John/Dany too, but I see much more chemistry between them than between Beric and Thoros. Of course, I could be wrong and Dany and John could end up just being friends. I think there’s too much foreshadowing though.
    4. Arya is being less and less fair towards Sansa. How did she contribute towards Ned’s death? How can Arya not see that she was actually trying to save him? And Arya insisting that Sansa can’t use her youth as an excuse because Lyanna Mormont would never have done that is flawed logic. Children are different, with differing levels of courage and intelligence etc. Lyanna and Sansa were not brought up the same way. Perhaps Arya also needs to consider the fact that it was maybe the more mature decision to pretend to play along with the Lannisters, as Sansa getting herself killed would not have saved her father and her family and would have done no good overall.
    5. I know the rest of you guys don’t like that Sansa sent Brienne away, I don’t see how she had any other choice. Who else could she trust as much as Brienne to represent her interests in KL? Also, now Brienne can no longer be part of LF’s plan. Plus, I honestly believe Sansa when she says she can look after herself. She knows better than anyone how LF works, and it isn’t through the use of a sword. I’m just trusting in Sansa at the moment, because I’ve seen her make some good decisions and want to believe she knows what she’s doing. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
    6. I didn’t find Sansa and Arya’s conversation particularly unrealistic, because siblings interact differently in general in this world and time period. Also, Sansa and Arya have spent years apart, gone through vastly different experiences and (as Sansa says) don’t know each other anymore. Even today, there are societies in which rape, for example, is not discussed. I think this is very wrong, but it doesn’t seem abnormal to me that Sansa shouldn’t want to talk about something that personal and traumatic with a sister she doesn’t even know for sure she can trust.
    PS: This is my longest post yet, so I’ll stop. So sorry for the rambling! :-)

    • Dennai

      “Tyrion’s remarks to Dany about how she could have handled the situation
      with the Tarly’s differently. He’s always the voice of reason,”
      I have to disagree with you here. Dany had no other choice. Once Lord Tarly not only refused to bend the knee, but reject the possibility of going to the Wall, Dany had no other option but executing him. If you don’t make good of your threaths, you look weak, particularly where all that defiance was so public.

      • Lyanna Mormont

        She had the option of not making that threat in the first place, though. She could’ve said something like “surrender your sword and swear not to take up arms against me” or “bend the knee or it’s the dungeon for you” or some other ultimatum.

        • Dennai

          The thing is, she’s not doing anything out of the ordinary in these circunstances. Defeated leaders have to either submit to you and join your side or be taken away from the board. The Targaryen were all killed during Robert’s rebellion and those that supported them were forced to bend the knee. The Ironborn rebelled and were forced to bend the knee. The Reach sided with Dany and the Queen of Thorns was to be killed, one way or another. After the Red Wedding put an end to Robb’s rebellion, all the remaining northern lords had to bend the knee to the Boltons. Tywin exterminated the Reynes, and you don’t see him being demonized through the realm because of that. A popular song was made about it.

          “Bend the knee or it’s the dungeon for you” is really a lame ultimatum. “You are my prisoner now. Bend the knee or you are gonna still be my prisoner” has very little edge to it.

          • Lyanna Mormont

            But Dany has given more favorable ultimatums in the past, in Essos. It’s how she’s won most of her followers – the Unsullied and the Dothraki don’t follow her out of fear for their lives, but because they chose to, and that’s what makes them solid allies rather than someone she’ll always have to watch carefully.
            “You’re my prisoner, but bend the knee and you’ll be given your freedom” is carrot instead of whip. It would be the dungeon until she’s won the war, at which point they’d have to bend the knee or go to the Wall because there’d be no other ruler.
            I’m just saying she HAD options, but she backed herself into a corner, which might not have had to happen if she’d talked to someone – like Tyrion – about it beforehand.
            And Tywin might not have been demonized, but he certainly wasn’t loved for what he did to the Reynes. Dany wants to break the wheel, but she followed up a claim not to be like the Lannisters with a very Lannister-like behavior.

            • Dennai

              “the Unsullied and the Dothraki don’t follow her out of fear for their lives, but because they chose to”

              The Unsullied and Dothraki didn’t raise in arms against her and were defeated in battle. It’s not the same scenario.

              ” ‘You’re my prisoner, but bend the knee and you’ll be given your freedom” is carrot instead of whip.’

              True, but that’s semantics. Bending the knee already implied not only your freedom but keeping your status.

              “It would be the dungeon until she’s won the war, at which point they’d have to bend the knee or go to the Wall
              because there’d be no other ruler.”

              But what profit would Dany get from this? She only has a stronghold and winter is here. Her resources are already stretched as they are, and you are asking of her to waste some in keeping secure and safe prisoners for the sake of what? Good light on her to our modern eyes? I know that the writers are showing us the conflict in that way, but that’s a flawed approach from them in an attempt to create some drama between Tyrion and Dany. They are doing that going against anything it has been showed before. Another casualty in this extremely fast paced season.

              “Dany wants to break the wheel, but she followed up a claim not to be like the Lannisters with a very Lannister-like behavior.”

              That’s a very valid point. I always found the wheel speech stupid anyway. She broke the wheel in Essos abolishing slaveship in a society based on slave work and instauring a monarchy where an oligarchy used to rule. But about Westeros, are you going to change the feudal system? Set up a different kind of government? Otherwise, we’re still having the same wheel rolling.

              • Lilley Berrington

                I wouldn’t say people are demonising Dany for doing the same as all the others in Westeros, but the whole point is that she wants to bring change. Keeping prisoners would have perhaps given them time to realise that if they were in the hands of the other side they would have been treated much worse. Perhaps Dany does intend to replace the feudal system with something different. Or perhaps she would make the lords distribute their wealth more with their underlings. Perhaps her successor will be democratically elected. We can’t know until she wins (if she wins). The point at the moment is that she says she wants to be different and not crush all those below her.

          • Lilley Berrington

            But exactly. You’re saying what Dany did is no different from anyone else in Westeros. Yet, she wants people to believe that she isn’t the same as those in charge of the wheel.

      • Lilley Berrington

        Then perhaps she shouldn’t have dealt with it so very publically. She didn’t have to threaten death to those who went against her in the first place, and could have taken prisoners. As Tyrion said, ruling through fear is Cersei’s thing. That doesn’t inspire true loyalty, and anyone who bends the knee after that can’t be trusted.

  • Lilley Berrington

    Oh, and are they seriously pulling a Gendry with Grey Worm? We haven’t seen him since episode 3.

    • Lyanna Mormont

      Same for Yara. And Theon was last seen in episode 4.

      • Lilley Berrington

        Alright that’s true, although episode three seems so long ago now. Lol. I sort of assumed we wouldn’t see Yara for a while as she’s a prisoner, and Theon was at least safe when last we saw him. Are Grey Worm and his men stuck with no supplies at Casterly Rock now? I didn’t quite pick up if they had any way of leaving after their ships were burned.

        • Dennai

          Way of leaving, yes. Just walk. Castle Rock is on the mainland. How long would take them to get to the eastern part of Westeros? Well, as long as plot convenience dictates. The trailer for the final episode shows that they will be by King’s Landing at some point.

  • debijl

    I really hope Arya is doing all this to play Littlefinger. I want him dead and the sisters united. Brienne on her way to Kings Landing is dumb, but it does put her back in Jaime’s orbit. (I love that a women derisively called “Brienne the beauty” is the potential love interest of 2 hot guys)

    Speaking of Arya, how was it that none of the “bro talk” from the magnificent 7 mentions her. She is tied to 5 of the 7.

    • Lilley Berrington

      Interesting that we like and dislike the idea of Brienne going to KL for exactly opposite reasons. Lol

      • moata

        I don’t like her going to KL because a) it’s not what she wants to do and b) it puts her further away from Tormund (not that time and distance seem to matter much these days, but still)

        • Lilley Berrington

          I like her going to KL, because it takes her away from LF, so he can’t use her in his plans. Also, who else could Sansa trust as much to represent her interests? I don’t like her going because it takes her further from Tormund, as you said, and because I’m not keen for a whole her and Jaime thing again, particularly if its going to just be done to please shippers.

          I still say there’s a strong platonic friendship there, sans the romance.

    • Lanie

      I don’t want Brienne anywhere near King’s Landing. Cersei hates her given Jaime’s fondness for her. However, she’s heading there, and so is The Hound. I can just picture them meeting up again:

      TH: So I met your boyfriend.
      Brienne: *rolls eyes* He’s NOT my boyfriend.
      Hilarity ensues!

  • Lyanna Mormont

    Ohcrapohcrapohcrapohcrap…

    It’s been a pet theory of mine for years, but seeing it happen on the screen – yeah. Not the same. And now we see the true foreshadowing of Qyburn’s scorpion. Also, the callback to the NK turning that baby seasons ago was very clear.

    First thought as the episode opened – apart from admiration for that cut from opening credits to map table to beyond the wall – “Hey, they picked up some redshirts!” I could swear I only saw the seven of them leaving Eastwatch at the end of last episode. Also, did my eyes deceive me or did the number of redshirts change over the course of the episode? No, I don’t mean the once who got killed. But the first time we saw the group I counted ten people, and later it looked like twelve. Admittedly I haven’t rewatched so I could very well be wrong…

    Really liked the conversations along the way, too. Jon and Jorah about Longclaw and their fathers, Gendry and the Brotherhood about Selling him to Melisandre, Tormund and the Hound about Brienne… (“You do know her!”) Thoros and Jorah about the storming of Pyke. Tormund insisting he’s been to the South because he’s been to Winterfell. (“Winterfell is in the North.” “Pshaw!”)

    Redshirt scouts ahead – bad sign. Yep. And wow, Gendry must have amazing vision to see the color of the bear’s eyes at that distance through a snowstorm.

    The Hound doesn’t deal well with fire, check. It’s amazing the number of people in the series who have issues of one kind or another with fire. We have followers of the LoL – Melisandre, Thoros, Beric. We have Jaime and his ongoing thing about wildfire, now with dragonfire thrown in as well. There’s Dany with her immunity and her tendency to burn those who oppose her. There’s Jon, Targaryen by birth but who burned his hand early on in the show. There’s the Hound. There’s Cersei who blew up half a city with wildfire. There’s a bunch of past Targaryens who were obsessed with it, including the Mad King’s “Burn them all!” and Prince Aerion who drank wildfire thinking it would turn him ito a dragon. Shireen, who died at the stake. And, of course, we have dragons.

    White Walker scouting party – yeah, first reaction was “Why the hell didn’t THAT one die when the WW did?” (But I guess their theory works. Also, Beric’s conclusion gives us an ultimate target which will most likely lead to a Jon/Night’s King duel at the end of the last season. After all, the WW aren’t vulnerable to fire like the Wights are, so the dragons can’t take them out.) And the look on the Hound’s face when the struggling wight’s half-rotted face came loose in his hand when he tried to silence it…

    Aaaand here they come. Run, Gendry, run! (How did Jon know he’s the fastest – did they hold running competitions in Eastwatch before they left, or what? Nah, he probably just assumed younger= faster and wasn’t about to leave himself, which left Gendry.) Another theme here – people telling someone else to go. Jon and Gendry, Jon and Dany, Benjen and Jon. “Fly, you fools!”

    Cracking ice. They have to go anyway, and it works in their favor – short term. But the Army of the Dead is in no hurry, they’ve got all the time in the World to wait out these stupid mortals. I guess Jon’s counting on the World’s Fastest Raven to make it to Dany in a day. (Well, night.)

    Goodbye, Thoros, you drunken priest, stormer of castles, raiser of the dead, lover of flasks, wearer of topknots.

    Oooh, the Hound makes a good point. Beric is all out of reboots now. But then he doesn’t seem to have added any more deaths since we met him in Season 3, so maybe he’ll survive long enough to make his last Death count, although he does seem kinda eager for it to come soon, so who knows. And now I’m wondering whether someone who’s essentially a fire wight can become an ice wight? (Could be relevant for Jon as well…)

    Burning Thoros because otherwise he might rise as a wight in their midst, sure – but the fire also provides some warmth. It brings me back to the half-starved NW burning one of their own at Craster’s, right before Old Bear Mormont got killed, and someone (Dolorous Edd?) commenting on how good he smelled as he roasted. Here they’re half-frozen and one of their own is providing the heat…

    Sandor. Sweetheart. Do not taunt the near-unstoppable undead. Do not show them the ice on the lake is stronger now. Just. Don’t. Do it.

    And then I’m brethless for a while, terrified for all of them (Tormund! Gyaaahgh!) while we know Dany’s on her way with dragons. First real ohcrapohcrap of the episode, and it’s a whopper. Jon looks like he’s pondering a suicide run. They STILL cling to their kidnapped wight.

    Then Dany sweeps in with the dragons, and we see what THREE of them can do to an army. (Something we’ll never see again…) And then… And then…

    Viserion takes a (magic?) spear, and falls. (It was Viserion, right? Honestly I’m having a much harder time telling the Other Two dragons apart now than when they were younger – must be the light in the far North compared to in Essos.) The NK grabs for the next spear, Jon yells at Dany to take off without him, Drogon dodges the spear (zigzag!) and Jon falls in the lake. I’m half expecting Third Dragon to come fish him out, but I guess they haven’t even been properly introduced yet.

    Yeah, we all knew Jon wasn’t going to die that way. Just like we knew Jaime wasn’t going to drown a couple episodes ago. But those wet clothes in that cold…

    Benjen Ex Machina! (It’s his middle name. Middle names?) Goodbye, Benjen. He might be dead already but if they rip him to little pieces we won’t see him again. And it’s Jon’s turn to fly, you fool. Still freezing, though.

    Wait, where’s the Hound going with the wight – out to that ship with Targaryen sails that just appeared out of nowhere? So he’s going to Dragonstone/KL with the others? Is Beric staying at Eastwatch with Tormund? What about Gendry? I want a scene where these decisions are made, dammit!

    Jon returns, is taken care of by Davos, Dany sees his scars. (At least they didn’t push it to absurd levels with something like Dany lovingly washing his chest, or crawling into bed with him naked to share body heat, or some over-the-top crap like that.) I still feel like the show is pushing them on us as a romantic couple, and I still don’t see it. The thing that got her the most emotional was when he said she was a good queen. That is what they have in common – being leaders in difficult times, struggling with hard decisions – not some insta-romance.

    Aaaaand… Nope. No. I’ve said for years that it was going to happen, but nope. I’m not okay with this. NO UNDEAD DRAGONS ALLOWED!

    As for the Tyrion stuff, I actually thought about him in relation to the Jon/Gendry “You’re much shorter than him” exchange just the other day, and here’s Dany sticking her foot in her mouth. And telling him he’s not a hero. And telling him his plans are no good so she’ll do what she wants. This is building to something, I can feel it. Combined with Varys’s “You need to rein her in somehow” last episode, this really feels like it’s bound to lead to something.

    Arya has an actual bag of faces! And threatens Sansa. I wanted to believe they were putting on a show for Creepyfinger, but too much of this is being said in private. I’m sure Arya thinks she was showing trust in Sansa by making a point of NOT killing her even though she could, but… Arya’s not really in touch with her own emotions, much less other people’s.

    I’m not sure about the “Sister share and overshare!” argument. I’m not necessarily the best judge, since one of my sister’s is twelve years younger than me and the other is technically a step-sister who came into my Life when we were eight and nine, respectively, but we don’t really do that. Not that we have a lot of big fights, either. Anyway, Arya and Sansa aren’t like us here today, they didn’t grow up like us even when they were together, and they did spend a lof ot years apart, doing their growing up in completely different circumstances, so… Arya did pull the “You were inside knitting, your handwriting was always prettier, but dad loved me for me!” card, which satisfied me on the pulling-up-old-shit front. But what practice has either of them had when it comes to sharing their experiences? The closest thing to a sister-friend either of them has had was Sansa with Margaery, which lasted for what, a month or two? And then she found out the Tyrells were using her to poison Joffrey, and she was never told Margaery didn’t know about that, so she might have her doubts about how sincere any of it was.
    Creepyfinger: “Brienne would surely help you deal with Arya, yes?”
    Sansa: “Hey, Brienne? I need you to go to King’s Landing, stat. No argument.”
    That’s my girl. Someone has to protect the protector. It fits in well with Sansa dealing with food and armor a few weeks ago. (Also, Brienne and Jaime scenes!)

    (Would a wight dragon still breathe fire? Fire kills wights, after all.)

    • Dennai

      “out to that ship with Targaryen sails that just appeared out of nowhere?”

      I’m assuming that was the ship that brought the party to Eastwatch in first place. For sure they didn’t ride to get there, because that would be not only slower and stupid, but also unforgiveable that they didn’t stop at Winterfell on their way.

      • Lyanna Mormont

        Oooooh, right. I forgot about that, probably because we never saw that ship. (Did we?) So much has felt rushed these past couple of episodes.

        • Lyanna Mormont

          Actually, now that I think about it, wouldn’t Jon have sailed back north with the same ship he came down on? Which would’ve been a Northern ship, from either Eastwatch (didn’t seem like it when he spoke to Tormund last episode) or White Harbor.

          • Lanie

            I’m assuming that Dany being Dany sent them in her ship. She still didn’t completely believe Jon. Her ship, her rules.

    • Lilley Berrington

      I love your theme identifying thing here. I never really thought about how everyone is either horrified by fire or obsessed with it! Also, I totally agree about Sansa making a good decision to send Brienne to KL, but I’m not excited about Brienne/Jaime interaction. I’m too scared the show gets all unrealistic fan servicy and gets them together or something. That’s just one ship I’m not boarding.

  • magnusk_98

    Alright, then. I guess here is where I need to break with you, because this time, I totally saw it at the end, D+J y’all. :p Sorry, even Kits brood-staring couldn’t prevent it from happening. There was some real emotion between the two and I thought it was quite obvious.

    Now, the really good parts of the episode were of course the different conversations of the Magnificent Seven, the undead polar bear attack, Dany and Tyrions first conversation and the final stand on the island, dragons and all.

    But, yeaaaah. Some parts I found a bit stupid. The drama between Arya and Sansa seems forced. The time dilation between Gendry running towards Eastwatch-by-the-Sea and Dany arriving is too quick. And I guess the Night King just has four giant chains with his zombie army, just for the right occasion?

    At least the last two are things which break suspension of disbelief, which as a gamemaster of many tabletop roleplaying campaigns, I can say is supremely important to make players (i.e. the audience) care and invest themselves into the story.

    Also, hypothermia is a thing, although maybe Jons supernatural status gives a plausible out for that one.

    Anyway, sadly I am not going to be here for the last episode. I’m going on vacation Wednesday and will visit my parents, relatives and friends in Paraguay. I hope they give us an excellent finale to tide us over the long nig… errr wait until season eight comes around. And I am looking forward to reading your reviews then!

    • ” hypothermia is a thing, although maybe Jons supernatural status gives a plausible out for that one.”
      WHAT IF… You know how Dany cannot be burned? Maybe Jon cannot be frozen?

      • Lyanna Mormont

        Because of his inner fire? Because he’s been raised from the dead by the Lord of Light? Because his TRUE father was a White Walker? Because his is the Song of Ice and Fire?

        • Posh66

          Most epic comment!!!!

        • Lanie

          HAHAHAHA!!!

  • Lisa

    Haven’t read other comments so I may be repeating.

    It seemed to me that this episode was very much building the Dany/Jon Snow alliance. She had said that she wouldn’t fight until he bent the knee, but he signaled her for help and she Road in with the dragon Calvary and suffered a real personal loss by doing so. This earns Jon’s respect. On the other hand, she saw that Jon was willing to go down for the good fight while waving the others to go. She sees that what he has said is true about him. He isn’t hungering for a throne. He’s defending the living from the dead. Shipping or not to ship aside, this was very much about them learning to see one another as we see them and their becoming an alliance.

    Still, Visyrion!!! wahhhhhhh!!!!

    On the other hand I was convinced we’d lose either Jorah, Tormund, Gendry, or The Hound and am glad they survived.

    Elsewhere, where the frell is Bran? He can see the past. He can clear up this whole sisterly mistrust thing by just sharing pertinent information with his sisters!

    Finally, Ice Dragon. OMG!

    • Lilley Berrington

      Here’s holding fingers crossed that Bran will play an important part in solving sisterly conflict next episode!

      • moata

        My fiance last night: We need a Brantervention!

  • Dennai

    So, I just watch the trailer for the final episode. The meeting between Cersei and our guys is taking place. I don’t think anyone of us have the minimum doubt that Cersei would try to spring a trap. Would she go with its trusted wildfire once again? Can wildfire hurt dragons? can hurt Dany? It’s a chemical fire so I guess same rules don’t aply.
    Maybe she goes for a surprise attack of the Golden Company/Euron fleet and a hundred concealed scorpions aiming at the dragons instead, or maybe it’s a combination of wildfire and sneak attack. One way or the other, shit’s gonna hit the fan.
    I’m assuming Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger conflict will be solve for good or ill in this episode too. I can’t see the situation lingering until the next season.

    • Lilley Berrington

      I actually doubt Cersei would spring a trap. There must be some reason that Dany and all the rest are actually going to KL, trusting that they’ll be safe. I think Dany has too much backup. Even Cersei knows she won’t manage to win the war in one day, especially if Dany were to station her army just outside KL to storm in if anything seems strange. I think for now they’ll have a standoff.

      • Dennai

        Do you really think they’ll get the biggest assembly of GOT stars in one place and nothing really happens? in the season finale? The fact that Dany has such serious backup and gets confident only gives more reasons to think that something is gonna go south.

        • Lanie

          It will be a huge cliffhanger as to who survives. Cersei does love her wildfire. Wouldn’t put it past her to use it again. That woman has gotten nuttier than a jar of peanuts. Should we start a betting pool now on who makes it out alive?

        • Lilley Berrington

          The things going south might not involve death and destruction though, for now. There are other things that could go wrong.

    • Lyanna Mormont

      I certainly think Cersei would spring a trap if she thought that was the best way to get the upper hand, but it might not be. She could decide that it’s more to her benefit to wait and give herself time to recoup and recruit (Golden Company), than to risk a trap that could backfire – with all Dany’s forces right on her doorstep. Better to let them wear themselves out with other enemies, and then swoop in while they’re exhausted and vulnerable.

      Things could go wrong in unexpected ways, though. There are a lot of tempers in one place there, and if someone says the wrong thing, or looks like they’re about to pull something, or the wight gets loose and someone tries to take it out but misses and hits someone else, or any of a million other things… well. A lot of important players in one place at the same time, so if things go wrong they could potentially go disastrously wrong.

      People I’m fairly certain will survive the season? Those still in Winterfell, except possibly Creepyfinger or one of the lords. Jon, Dany, Tyrion. (They might die next season, but not now.) Probably safe are Cersei and Jaime – again, next season is a different story – unless they both go out together at the end of the episode and next season is all about everybody still breathing fighting the WW together, but that seems much less likely to me. (Too much like classical high fantasy.) But people like the Mountain, Bronn, Pod, Brienne, Davos, Qyburn, Theon, Grey Worm, Missandei, Jorah… Anything could happen.

      People very much at risk, IMO? Those at Eastwatch. I still stand by my prediction that the Wall coming down will be the last thing to happen in the finale, simply because it makes narrative sense, and if that happens most of the Eastwatch crew will be overwhelmed – with maybe one or two still found running for their lives in the opening scenes of next season, kinda like Sam in season 2/3.

      • Dennai

        You could be right that things go wrong because something unexpected, but one way or another, things are gonna go wrong. You don’t bring so many pieces to the board -on a season finale, nonetheless- and have nothing happening.

  • fabulousmissb

    Speaking as a sister, I totally agree with the whole “That is NOT how sisters (or even women) fight.” Ridiculous, unnecessary drama. And where is Bran in all of this? He could clear this shit up easy. Littlefinger needs to hurry up and get gutted with his own Valyrian steel dagger. Preferably by Sansa.

  • Jean, Giver of Jewelry

    I so want to be the drummer for the Flaming Polar Bears! (No, I’m not a drummer, but to be in that band, I would learn!).

    I was sooooo sure we would lose Tormund, Jorah, and/or Gendry, and all made it out alive! My heart can go on beating!

    Others have said this, but if Sansa and Arya aren’t pulling a fast one on Littlefracker, I will have serious conniption fits! It just makes no sense. Even if they don’t pour their hearts out to each other, they would have sketched in a bit of what each of them has suffered. And why would Arya give Sansa the dagger? I hope it is to use on Littlefinger….

    And ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease let Tormund and Brienne make wonderful little monster babies!

    • I HAVE TO BELIEVE THE SISTERS ARE SETTING HIM UP. I just have to.

      • Jean, Giver of Jewelry

        I pray to the old gods and the new!

    • Lanie

      Monster babies – YES YES YES!!

      • Jean, Giver of Jewelry

        :-)

  • Andy Street

    You know on reflection I think I would rather have one or two less big set-pieces in exchange for ten episodes. Stuff needs time to develop properly.

    Maybe scrap the sea battle with Euron – that must have cost a fortune but have we seen him since episode 3? As far as I can tell the only purpose was to close down the Dornish plot. You can do that some other more cost-effective way.

    • Lanie

      I agree Andy. Heck I would settle for 10 45 minute episodes. Things seem to be moving too fast. I checked and the finale will be an hour and 25 minutes long. Guess we will see how much is crammed into that episode on Sunday.

    • ars_belli

      Fewer set-pieces.

      All Stannis-ing aside, I heartily agree! This season is starting to feel so rushed that it’s stretching my credibility. Ice Zombie Dragons I can take, but not teleporting ones! The plot needs to be decanted properly so it can breathe, like a nice bottle of Dornish red.

      • Andy Street

        Hah.

        That was one of the relatively rare times when substituting ‘fewer’ would have clarified the meaning as well.

        I was asking for fewer expensive set pieces rather than set pieces that were smaller.

        You win this time, Stannis!

  • Posh66

    Ikea furs. It’s funny because it’s true!

    So, I feel like GoT is in over its head, much like Jon Snow every five damn minutes (I mean, what did he think was going to happen when they met up with the WWs?). They are trying to do too much with too many characters in too little time. At this point I would have settled for fewer dragon shots if it meant two extra episodes to fill in some of the many blanks this season. But enough whinging! /Hound

    Remember that time we all hoped Arya was only stringing along the waif with some cunning hidden plan, even after being stabbed in the gut five times? Yeah, I think that’s happening again here, and Arya and Sansa are being dumbasses to further ye old plot along rather than being strategic masterminds. I could be wrong! I hope I’m wrong! PS I’m not wrong.

    I like to think that Dany is all bravado, pretending to be confident and strong so no one can see her weaknesses, while on the inside she’s just a scared young girl trying to live up to her very long name, and Jon Snow is the only person she allowed to see that part of her because she was feeling ALL the feels due to dragon loss. Was his hair down for that scene? That would also explain it. I love it how she knows he’s not her type, but she may be talked into expanding her parameters.

    Tyrion definitely seems to be falling out of Dany’s favour. I fear what that means for him. Did he stops drinking? That was a mistake haha.

    Okay, what is the Night King’s end game, here? Kill all humans and…what? Finally be able to die in peace? Sit his icy ass on the iron throne and have dead polar bear matches in the throne room? What’s his character arc??

    I never thought I’d say this, but they need to kill off some A listers. The threat of that is always what made this show so riveting and shocking, because the stakes were high, and oh so real. If one more character *almost* dies but miraculously comes through it, I’m going to be plenty irked. Except leave the B listers be. The Hound and Tormund and Brienne must not die. They must start a band called…wait for it…The Flaming Polar Bears. Brienne plays bass.

    That dragon dying was so awful. So much blood! But a zombie dragon is pretty frickin cool. Who will win the game of thrones? Just when we thought we had it all figured out…

    • Lanie

      Arya appears to have 0 trust in her sister. I’m still not sure what Sansa’s angle is. She says she doesn’t trust Twatbeard, yet she immediately runs to him after her confrontation with Arya about the Raven she sent years ago. I’m hoping she’s playing the long con with him, but I don’t think she is. Yes she has been through many things, but she hasn’t been in the game very long and Twatbeard has been playing it for YEARS.

      I have a feeling we’re going to see a LOT of A listers die next season :( Agreed that TH, Tormund, and Brienne must live. Brienne playing Bass – I can see it. Tormund on drums, TH on lead guitar. Can we get Bronn for lead vocals?

      • Lyanna Mormont

        Sansa did ask Arya how/where she found that message. It’s possible that she figured LF may have been involved, went to talk to him to get some idea what his plan was, and so when he talked about Brienne she immediately decided to send her away. After that, she may have been just winging it. Somewhere in between being clueless and masterminding the whole thing – reactive, but on to him.

      • Posh66

        I would be delighted as heck if Sansa beats Littlefinger at his own game – so satisfying. Arya obviously has an inferiority complex when it comes to Sansa, and she’s pushing hard to show that she’s Sansa’s superior in many ways now. We’ll see how that plays out for the both of them.

        Bronn on vocals is brilliant. I would also like the Hound to do double duty on keyboard. Maybe Simon Cowell can arrange things.

    • ars_belli

      You’ve hit the nail on the head about not killing anyone off this season. For all the battles, this episode felt really lack-lustre for me, and I’m sure it’s because no-one bar the Fire Priest of Shiraz died, whereas in earlier seasons they would have been a lot less cautious.

      The Night King just wants to listen to the Flaming Polar Bears all winter! (TBH, I doubt that the Children of the Forest actually gave the Night King an endgame. He’s like a dog chasing a car.)

      Good point about Dany (and Dany/Jon). Does her queenly persona feel very static to you, as if it hasn’t changed since S4?

  • Lanie

    The 2017 Westeros Olympics are in full swing! Here’s the current medal count:

    Night’s King of the White Walkers brings home gold in the Javelin. The arm on that “man” seems almost magical!

    Gendry Barratheon of King’s Landing picks up his second career gold in the Marathon. He currently hold the world record in Rowing, which he received gold for in the 2013 Olympics.

    Stay tuned for more medal counts!

  • JCDavis

    Dearest Laura, yeah – you are right about sisters, we drag and chew and then put it on the post and chew it again. But never death threats. I have to think that it is some sort of Arya testing Sansa. The rest I am still processing. I have pain my friend, real pain seeing Viserion go down and knowing the future because of that. I’ll take that drink and send a lovely bottle of chilled white down your way. But sometimes ya gotta wonder if there is really enough alcohol on the planet. Right? See you next week, after I go shopping on Amazon for a new attitude!! (hugs for your personal issues)

    • I mean, I know I’m being #NotAllSisters in comments (and fair enough! The world is a spectrum of behaviors) but the overwhelming consensus here and elsewhere (given by the # of articles about it) is that Arya and Sansa are OOC in how they’re acting. AND MY HOPE IS THAT IT IS A PLOY. <– Fervent hope and wish!

      (And thank you for those hugs! They are so appreciated.)

      XOXOX

      • Posh66

        Hahahaha, you called it!

        • I AM SO GRATEFUL OMG. (New recap is up, btw!!) <3

    • ars_belli

      Is it really Arya though? Or are we seeing the same transformation through which Bran has gone — albeit less drastically — so she remembers being Arya Stark but isn’t just Arya now, but Arya plus all the personalities of the faces she’s worn? (That was very ineloquent, sorry.) The whole “bag of faces” scene was definitely a test of some sort, which Sansa passed, but I have no clue what Arya’s endgame is.

      Does the fact that it was (narratively) inevitable make Viserion’s (non-)death any more bearable? Maybe we’ll see the Night’s King on Viserion vs Dany on Drogon next season.

  • menomegirl

    Back again to make another comment about what’s been bugging me about this episode. I’ve been thinking and I’ve finally sussed out what bothered me so much. All those guys walking in the snow, bonding with each other and basically talking stuff out. And then in Winterfell, there’s Sansa and Arya, definitely not bonding or talking shit over. That’s all kinds of screwed-up.

    I haven’t read through all the comments here or read any other recaps or reviews, so if this point was already made, um….never mind. ;)